Wake Forest University is test optional and just a couple of years ago was #23 in the US News (is ranked #27 this year). In fact they were a leader in the test optional trend after a study by them showed that test scores were not a strong predictor of college academic success. Also, Bryn Mawr went test optional recently and they are a top 25 LAC. So there are definitely top colleges out there that are going test optional. BTW, my kids are really strong test takers so does not benefit them but I’m glad more colleges are looking at how to evaluate in other ways for admissions.
@Happyface2018 “many would congratulate her on a job well done.”
George Washington is an outstanding school, and your daughter certainly deserves to be congratulated. My comments are about what the majority of schools tend to prefer. It is certainly not intended to diminish your daughter’s achievement in any way.
@Happyface2018 “In one of your initial post you mentioned top 100. Now it’s top 25.”
That is because as you move through the top 100 universities, it depends on the school. However, the higher you go, the more likely a school is to care about test scores, and specific achievements. They will often even expect you to submit a couple of additional subject tests.
It is true that some schools may prefer community service over test scores and achievement, and perhaps they all will some day. Back in the day, many top schools did looked for students who were outstanding members of the community, and they wanted to see many clubs and activities. Now they call those applicants “serial joiners.” Most schools would rather see one club with a significant achievement than 10 clubs worth of participation ribbons. They are looking for students who have demonstrated that when they focus on something, they have been able to achieve something significant.
It certainly is not a knock on your daughter’s achievement in any way. I just want students who read this thread to understand what is currently in fashion among admissions departments.
@Much2learn No, I get it. My daughter also applied to University of Chicago (EA) Yale (EA) and Wellesley College (Early Evaluation). While these ranked higher than GW, GW was her #1 pick based on the Elliott School and the location.
While her scores were definitely not on par with the norm for those schools, both were perplexed when presented with the other parts of her application. Our college counselor had lengthy discussions with the admissions officers at both school. The final verdict was applying EA hurt more than helped because the ACT/SAT score range was even higher. She interviewed with alumni from both and attended programs at both (MUN at UChicago as a lead two years and Explo @Yale- Foreign Affairs Focus). While admissions loved those items, admitting her was not to be.
She applied to Wellesley “early evaluation”. She initially received a “possible” decision in February (“early evaluation” results in a likely, possible or unlikely). We were completely surprised because she submitted her ACT which was below the mid-50% range. Our college advisor called Wellesley admissions and was told that she received a possible based on her resume (she also won the Wellesley College Book Award and completed Girls State as a rising senior). Wellesley ultimately wait listed her. Initially she chose to stay on the wait list. After she was accepted to GW, she contacted Wellesley to withdraw from the wait list and was asked to reconsider because her potential to be accepted was very good. She chose GW.
I do understand what you are saying. I guess I’m still smarting a little from the whole college application process. From Loyola-Chicago accepting her with a $100,000 scholarship (but did not admit her to the honors program because her SAT fell short) to getting her hopes high after the EA/RD saga at UChicago and Yale, it was just a crazy experience. She ultimately landed in the best place for her.
She’s an only child so my undergraduate college application experience is over 
@Happyface2018 “I do understand what you are saying. I guess I’m still smarting a little from the whole college application process.”
Still, you are raising an important point.
While I am suggesting the path that gives the most students the best chance, there are many ways to get into a top school. Your D’s test scores were not the best, and she was able to find another path, by taking leadership roles in community service projects. There is no path that is right for everyone. Each student is different, and the best path for one student may not be the best for others. It really does depend on the individual students strengths and weaknesses.
Congratulations to your D on her achievement, and to you for surviving this crazy process.
@HappyFace2018 - re: post 62, first paragraph - is that a typo? How could your daughter have applied EA to both UChicago and Yale since Yale is SCEA?
@Hoggirl Nope, not a typo. She applied EA to both. Don’t what to tell you. She applied EA to both through the common application. Just looked at her common app to be certain. Yale was “Restrictive EA” and UChicago was “EA”. Our college advisor gave us the thumbs up so she did it.
@HappyFace2018 - wow. Gotta ask - was this an advisor at her high school or a private consultant? Either way, I am surprised, as that was bad advice.
HYPS all have “single choice” or “restrictive” early action which doesn’t allow for applying EA anywhere else other than publics, rolling admissions schools, and a few other narrow exceptions. Here are the Yale rules:
http://admissions.yale.edu/faq/single-choice-early-action
Sorry to have derailed your thread, OP.
@Hoggirl Nope…sorry to disappoint you but you didn’t derail the thread.
First, the thread was not about SCEA/EA applications (check the title please). Not to mention IT’S NOT MY THREAD!
Second, advice regarding SCEA/EA application was not requested not warranted.
Third, she wasn’t not accepted to either.
Lastly, as I said in my previous post SHE WAS ACCEPTED TO HER FIRST CHOICE!
So, GOOD TALK and BU-BYE
No need to be rude @HappyFace2018. Despite what your counselor may have said, your child’s application violated Yale’s SCEA rules and I think it’s important to keep misinformation off this site.
@mathyone No worries. Your not being rude. Your simply making the point that @Hoggirl already made. It’s all good. Now that we’ve cleared that up, do you think summer enrichment for HS students matter?
Well, yes, I did derail the thread with regard to the OP - Original Poster. That was to whom that apology was intended. Because, as you correctly pointed out, SCEA/EA wasn’t the original topic. @mathyone did understand (thank you!) my intention of making sure there was not misinformation on the thread, notwithstanding the fact that it was not relevant to the original subject. Many people scour these boards for information, and misinformation (whether on- or off-topic) needs to be corrected if CC is to remain the invaluable resource that it is. Because discussing SCEA/EA rules was not pertinent to the subject of inquiry, I apologized to the OP.
With regard to the topic that IS the subject of this thread, I opted to pm the OP about our experiences so I could be more detailed than I felt comfortable sharing publicly.
It is absolutely wonderful that your dd was accepted into her first choice school! However, the fact that she was rejected from Yale and UChicago does not mitigate the wrongness of applying early to both. I am sorry that upsets you.
@Hoggirl You mentioning it didn’t upset me at all. It’s the entire college application process that I’m still smarting about as I said to @Much2learn.
Kids work so hard to prepare themselves for this process and attempt to pull every ounce of knowledge from any and every source of information available to them (which is why I completely agree that information on CC should be correct). Parents like myself trust in our resources. Our college counselor sat down with each student and personally reviewed their common application. I have one child so I’m not at all a pro at this but I do know this…I would walk on hot coals for that kiddo you can be sure of that.
If you could only imagine all of the crap she/we have gotten from her not wanting to go to the in-state flagship school. It was assumed that she/we believed “we were to good for that school” which couldn’t be further from the truth! Further, because we didn’t chat with anyone about our finances parents began to question “how can you afford $68,700 a year!” This people would actually ask my daughter that question! Good grief!
The only person that knew where she was applying was our college counselor (she attends a very competitive private full IB school). We just didn’t say anything until she was accepted to GW.
Now to find out that she shouldn’t have applied to Yale and UChicago EA! As @mathyone pointed out thank goodness we didn’t pay a private counselor! (Outside of private school).
Thank you for recognizing my daughters hard work and thank God she wasn’t accepted to either school. Potentially putting my baby girl in that predicament after all she went through, in the first place, would have been a gut wrenching and completely unintentional (on my part) consequence.
Other than her waiting for her IB result due in July, I’m just glad it’s over
@HappyFace2018 - I, too, have an only, AND we also struggled with the issue of provincialism. I have been told to my face that we are stupid to pay what we are paying for ds to attend his private school. So, I totally understand where you are coming from. I was in NO WAY trying to impugn on YOUR integrity. My intention was to make clear that your college counselor did something s/he should not have done. Your adding that your dd attended a competive private IB school makes the college counselor’s “okay-ing” of pairing the Yale SCEA with UChicago EA all the more egregious on the part of the COUNSELOR. Of course you would have relied on your college counselor.
All the best with the IB results!!! I hope your dd loves GW! It’s an excellent school! I have a dear childhood friend whose dd will be a senior there next year (also in Elliot). Her experienced and opportunities have been amazing!
@Hoggirl OMG! I love that word “provincialism”! I wish I knew that word and what it meant when I felt like I was on the battlefield of defending our decisions.
When she/we learned that the Explo@Yale- Foreign Affairs program cost cost more than $5,000 she/we knew many of her friends and their parents would really think we were crazy.
This two week program was awesome. First and foremost for a student who did very well in the IB, she was very nervous about applying to colleges (because her PSAT was not good at all). Being chosen for this program was the single more important event that started to boost her confidence. Explo@Yale was a two week focus programs but they also have programs which allow a student to explore classes/activities of different topics.
The foreign affairs focus program choose 18 students from all over the world (from more that 500 applicants). The day we took her to the campus for check-in was awesome! She walked into her dorm room to find a huge white binder which included her schedule and articles on foreign and domestic policy of the United Stated States. The kids had to read, digest and be ready to defend their positions. The first week they debated each other and their professors (who were from Yale and Georgetown’s Walsh School of Foreign Service). The students also elected a US President, VP and Secretary of State. After the vote she was elected Secretary!
The second week they were awakened at 2:00am in the morning to address a foreign affairs crisis in the Ukraine (I believe Russia invaded Ukraine around that time). Over the weekend was fun time with trips to 5th Avenue, Broadway, Kings Dominion Park and White Water rafting (the kids got to pick two activities and the cost was built into the tuition).
The last week the kids visited the Council on Foreign Affairs (and met Gideon Rose) and the United Nations! They also had dinner at one of the most famous and historical restaurants in NYC (Fraunces Tavern)! Each student also received a free one years subscription to the Foreign Affairs magazine.
She left that program with a college LOR from one of the professors, a packet of valuable information regarding gaining a top secret security clearance in the IR-foreign affairs field and interview questions for IR-foreign affairs jobs.
But most of all, the timing of her participating in the program just made her so much more confident. She was a rising junior heading into her first IB DP year. This summer program definitely mattered!
Just a thought while you are all thinking about summer enrichment. If you live in an area with an active start-up culture an internship with a small start-up might be a great experience for a HS kid. My DD is interning currently with a small (15 employee) healthcare technology company. She is in the meetings. She is learning every aspect of the company. She is made to feel like an integral part of the program. It has been a great experience and she gets to do MUCH more than what she would do in a bigger, more established company.
@HappyFace2018 - as a side note I’m a graduate of the Elliott School. Happiest 4 years of my life. Loved GW, loved, DC, loved the program and the kids. Congrats to your daughter!
@CValle Thank you so much
Just got back from dropping my rising 9th grader off at his Python day camp. It is only one week, but it is his first coding experience. I think camps like this are a great way for kids to explore potential interests.
Let’s think about this rationally. Harvard’s acceptance rate is a wee bit over 5%. Harvard has already come out with its “Turning The Tide” initiative that pretty much explains in detail what they want from future students … and academic camps aren’t it. So why would we think that going to an academic summer enrichment camp is going to make a difference when 80% of the applicants are probably doing the same thing? Wouldn’t it be much easier to follow Harvard’s guidelines of what they actually intend to look for? (And they flat out say they would rather have the kid scooping ice cream who is able to relay that experience into something meaningful in their lives.)
@tutumom2001 For those students who are specifically focused on attending Harvard the “Turning the Tide” guidelines would indeed apply.
For those students who have no interest in attending Harvard (I know that may be difficult to believe), summer enrichment programs can actually assist a student on gaining insight regarding a particular field of study.
To paint all summer enrichment programs with such a broad brush because Harvard has spoken doesn’t apply to all.
The problem is too many kids have their hopes set on Harvard only to have their hopes dashed in the end. As you so astutely pointed out, the acceptance rate is an wee but over 5%. That’s a ton of rejection letters.
While the ice cream stand gig would be great…I’m pretty sure my daughter’s experience at Yale was more applicable to her GW - Elliott School and University Honors Program admission.