<p>
[quote]
the football season has to be over, including playoffs and state before Christmas
[/quote]
Why? It's a game, not life and death. Why do we need 3 teams from a district in the playoffs? Several teams each year make the playoffs with losing records. The season wasn't that long 30 years ago. It doesn't have to be now.</p>
<p>Football started as a fall/winter game in the northeast. It was never intended to be played in 100 degree weather. We had one kid die at Carter last year. Another one in Oklahoma. I played in Texas. I know the pressures these kids feel to be 'tough' and not admit when they should sit down and get the helmet and pads off. You're essentially putting your kids life in the hands of a coach who will lose his job if he doesn't win. Not a risk I'd be willing to take.</p>
<p>When I did high school cross-country practices started in mid-July. That made sense to me, as the first races were the first weekend of the school year. But my coaches were also nice about letting me not be there as long as I was working on my own (and they knew I would - the benefits of having a good reputation).</p>
<p>For football players I can see this being a bigger problem because of all the padding. There were times when it was over 100 degrees with a heat index even higher than that in early cross-country practices...I can't imagine working out in those conditions in football gear.</p>
<p>TheGFG, I completely agree with what you said. It is truly unfortunate and has gotten ridiculous. Maybe part of the competitiveness is the fact that highschools now have up to 1000 kids per class, so making the team in a cut sport is really tough. Football is a no cut sport at my s's hs (he has a class of around 500), but I have heard that at some of the super large schools, they have to cut or they would have 200 kids standing on the sidelines. As it is, at my s's school, they have upwards of 100 kids on varsity. Many of those kids are boys who have stuck with it since freshman year, not really playing much, but enjoying being part of the program, and hoping to get enough plays in to earn a letter (luckily the coach knows this and keeps track of plays so that all sr's earn a letter). In cut sports like baseball, soccer, basketball, volleyball, etc. you could have 50 or more kids trying out for a team of 10. Of course, a kid who has honed their sport for many years is going to stand out and make the team over someone who just picks it up (unless the person is some incredible freak, natural talented athlete). It is, I'm sure, very different in small towns or small schools. There are many downsides to attending humongous schools, but if you live in the big city and go public, you have no choice.</p>
<p>bandit, school also used to start after labor day, and end before memorial day. We didn't have endless numbers of teacher's inservice days making it impossible to complete finals before Christmas without starting in early August. I think that is ridiculous too. Why they can't just have all the teacher's inservice days at the beginning of the year is beyond me, but I wouldn't know how to fight that either. And, btw, this year 4 schools from each district are going to make the playoffs for 2006, adding another week. The UIL decided to do this because some of the districts have 9 or 10 teams, and they wanted to spread the wealth of making the playoffs. I agree with you that that is ridiculous also, but it is more of the "make the kids feel good" thing, or "everybody's a winner". How about the fact that in Texas we don't really have a "state champion" because we have 3 divisions? 1 large school and 2 regional smaller schools. I think that is stupid too. </p>
<p>But, with all that being said, none of that makes any difference to my s who absolutely loves every minute he spends on the field and is really struggling with whether he wants to give it up or try to prolong the experience in college. If it were up to me, I'd have him playing tennis, certainly easier on the body, and a true life time sport.</p>
<p>I understand the high school coach's desire for year round participation far better than I do the 8 year old travel team/professional training mania which is alive and well today. Not that I believe that kids shouldn't get some time off--teen age female athletes, in particular, are about 8 times as likely to suffer knee and leg injuries as are males because of bone structure differences, and the constant pounding exacerbates that, but at least the high school coaches are judged, in part, by how their teams do, and need to succeed to continue in their profession. I have no idea what prompts the growth of incessant travel and summer league teams for kids who can barely ride a bike, other than parental notions that their kids are special/headed for an athletic scholarship (in most cases, an absurd notion) or can't have any fun playing with kids who aren't as good (again, generally untrue), and must be singled out as stars. I really don't mean to offend anybody here who may have a better explanation than those just offered, but my oldest daughter, who is 17 and has been a sports addict/participant since she was old enough to walk (wants to be a sportwriter for her profession), has known a lot of kids playing really early travel sports, and has yet to notice a significant difference at the high school level, or hear a good reason for their perpetuation. I've been involved with youth sports for quite awhile, and I have the same reaction she has.</p>
<p>FWIW, my daughter told me a few weeks ago that one thing she was really looking forward to when she goes to college (she's going to be a high school senior this year) is being able to play sports for fun again. It's pretty disturbing that the system is burning out kids in this fashion (I suppose the same could be said for other extracurriculars, or academic pursuits aimed at pumping up college resumes, but that's for another thread).</p>
<p>I agree DT3. The travel or elite teams are ridiculous. How may flights have I been on with 11 year old hockey players traveling from Dallas to Colo. to play? I think if parents figured out what they spent on this type of thing, vs the potential for a scholarship, they could pay for a college education outright. Of course, that wouldn't stroke the parent's ego nearly as much.</p>
<p>Sorry for the personal soapbox. Kids dieing for football, schools sacrificing technology programs for new stadiums and indoor practice facilities, skipping scholarship interviews for a game because the coach won't put the kid's future first, all of these things make me angry.</p>
<p>It's all about ego. And, FWIW, I'm as into sports as anyone you know. I love college football and basketball--I attended Michigan and bleed Maize and Blue--and I think it's a very good thing for kids to be involved with athletics in high school, because it teaches them the value of commitment, team goals and hard work, and because it's an outlet at a time in kid's lives when they need one. I've gone to games and meets for my kids forever--basketball, football, baseball, softball, wrestling, soccer, and cross-country. Participation is good. Perspective is equally good. A lot of parents (and, as a result, kids) don't have it.</p>
<p>Mom of 5 varsity athletes, 3 seasons each. Football players in Vegas, swimmers in So Cal. So when we moved to NC 2 years ago the pressure definitely came off. Vegas high school was huge, son's sophomore class was 1200+, varsity football team made cuts to 40. His older brother was varsity 2 years before him and then he became varsity. Spring/summer workouts, with coaches. Football camp, and double practices all practices. Same with DD's high school swim team, more than 300 try-out, keep 75 maybe. Swam club just to keep in shape, again doubles, 3 hours in the morning, 3 in the afternoon.</p>
<p>So when we moved here the intensity wasn't here for THOSE sports, but was for basketball, soccer and hockey. Did I mention basketball?? Between Carolina, Duke, NC State and Wake it is pretty serious business.</p>
<p>Sons' were required to have weights as a class if on the football team in previous high school. Both had to get special permission from their head coach to NOT take weights and instead had APs.</p>
<p>Practice and games in Vegas heat with full pads makes for a different kid and gives them an interesting perspective on the scholar/athlete concept. Won't say if it's good or bad, just really different.</p>
<p>"I think if parents figured out what they spent on this type of thing, vs the potential for a scholarship, they could pay for a college education outright"</p>
<p>I wish I could remember where I read it, but a few years back when one of mine was still playing travel soccer, I read that if parents invested the money spent on dues, uniforms, travel, hotels, food and other misc. associated with the elite travel teams through all the years child played, they would in fact be able to finance their child's education 100% at a state school.</p>
<p>Of course I believe the kids get much more from their sports than a chance at a scholarship--physical fitness, team work, work ethic, and leadership to name a few :).</p>
<p>
[quote]
I agree jmmom that "Too many parents, coaches and hs sports fans lack all perspective as to where hs athletics should fit in a balanced life." </p>
<p>Unfortunately, if your kid is an athlete and wants to compete, you do what you have to do
[/quote]
I agree, ag, and I am not meaning to criticize any family for putting up with the nonsense. I know that trying to buck the system is virtually out of the question. I'm just railing against the "system", not the kids and parents who are victims of it.</p>
<p>Me too. I played, and blew out a knee that still hurts. I love sports. I think kids should play. But I think the emphasis is all wrong, the money spent is wrong. You can get the physical benefits from tennis, or other sports. You can get the team building from lots of activities as well, OM, US Robotics, band. Work ethic? The top athletes in most HS do nothing but sport, no academic effort at all. They do what they enjoy, and not much of anything else. Yes, I know there are exceptions, but they are exceptions. Ask the NCAA about Auburn. Sports shouldn't dominate other activities.</p>
<p>Cross Country requires a lot of time to prepare, especially if you have not been active for the rest of the year. Our school starts practice in June, and coaches expect you to be at most of the practices, and they hand out schedules just in case. This every day at 7 in the morning thing should be expected. I am sure that your 13 year old has plenty of time to have a fun summer for the rest of the day. Being active is also equally important. Its not like shes just running to make the team better- its for her own good also...THe coach emails, yes I agree that is a bit overzealous, but entering a training log is acceptable because i would sure love to have stats about how much i run in the summer</p>
<p>bja1288, I think you miss the point. XC is not anywhere near as demanding or dangerous as the football practices conducted in full gear in grueling heat. Submitting a training log of your runs & work-outs is very reasonable, and is a good teaching tool. Coaches should be teachers, first and foremost. A smart coach could use those logs at the end of the season to discuss how the summer training impacted the season and tailor next year's summer to achieve the runners's goals.</p>
<p>Some sports are requiring both morning and evening practices daily. Crazy. Some coaches do not make allowances for family plans and vacations and summer jobs. Crazy. So dedicated kids can be dropped from teams simply because their families were unwilling to have excessive, unnecessary limitations placed on the entire family for the sake of a sports season. </p>
<p>I sometimes see coaches involved in practices when they are not allowed by league regulations to be part of the process so early in the summer. Usually it is a few gung-ho kids who "drank the kool-aid" and use peer pressure to get the rest of the team to comply. That's the case with my d's XC team. The coach was "let-go," but has stayed on as a volunteer. (This creeps me out.) Rather than open the back door of their own homes and head out for a daily run, the gung-ho gang all get together and run every day. This is a private school drawing girls from all over. My d let them know that to expect me to drive her 40 minutes so she can run with the team and then turn around and drive another 40 minutes back home is nuts. They are acting quite snooty about her decision. She is amused, but some other kids have caved to the pressure. They've hounded their parents into taking long drives so a pack of girls can run as a pack. I realize there are benefits to running with teammates. But within reason, please. D is good, only frosh on varsity last year & won county championship. So I really don't know if her decision to stray from the herd will impact her position on the team. With track, your times speak for themselves, so coaches are kept more honest. But she's always been a non-conformist & I don't see her changing now. The coach was angry with her decision to attend lacrosse camps this summer, rather than XC camps. She feels that there is so much more to be learned at LAX camp than XC that it was a no-brainer. I agreed.</p>
<p>Of course, I wonder how blase I'd feel about this if she were a DIV-1 prospect........</p>
<p>Wow, I agree that what most of you are posting is WAY over the top. However, we are kind of at the other end of the scale. S's team really needs to do more work in the off season - whether it be weight room, scrimmaging, team practices, team camps, summer leagues or a combination. We play in the winter season. Then if we can find a coach, we can organize a spring league team. HS coach can then be with them from the end of school until beginning of school, I believe. We did 1 summer league with the coach which lasted a week and a half and had 8 games and no practices. Then nothing more until fall when again, if we can get a coach, we can do a fall league. It's no wonder we're not very good. Other teams in our league do a lot more (but no where near the extent some of you have described) and it shows.</p>
<p>Yeah, my uncle was a pro-football player for several years, went to the Super Bowl several times, etc and thinks that Pop-Warner and other football teams for 9 yr olds (and younger) are excessive and not worth it. He didn't start playing until HS and granted he has other things going for him (he's 6'6, very large build, etc) but he didn't think it hurt him at all. </p>
<p>On the other hand, my 8 yr old brother plays baseball year round (well, pretty much yr round: LL and another team in the spring, tournament/all star teams in the summer, and a fall team). This is normal where I live, and no one seems to have a problem with it. I do have to disagree with a previous poster in that it really is not fun for kids to be playing with other kids who are not even close to their level, especially in a sport like baseball where you really have to know the rules, plays, etc.
My brother's team doesnt do this, but some teams have their 8 yr olds playing in 3 tournaments at once- they had double headers on a saturday and then again that sunday! it's too hard on an 8 yr old's arm to be pitching 6 innings so many times a week and for some of the tournaments there are no rules regulating how much one kid can pitch.. it's ridiculous.</p>
<p>Did anyone watch that show on Bravo I think it was called Sports Kids Moms & Dads or something to that effect?</p>
<p>"dedicated kids can be dropped from teams simply because their families were unwilling to have excessive, unnecessary limitations placed on the entire family for the sake of a sports season."</p>
<p>This expresses the crux of the matter as far as summer practices. First, during the school year there is bussing available and everyone's schedule must include school. So staying after school daily and then riding the late bus home (or even getting picked up by mom at 5:15) is no great hardship. A very different situation is one where a parent has to drive a kid to the school for practice at 8 AM, pick them back up at 9:30 or 10 (end time is unpredictable), and then drive them back for 3:00 and pick them up again at 5:30 or 6.</p>
<p>Second, let's remember that these athletes may have siblings. Add to the above schedule a different practice/activity timetable for child #2 and possibly #3, and a parent's entire day is spent driving a shuttle. My eldest has seldom experienced the frustration and anger my youngest has at having her play or sleep interrupted and her little plans postponed/nixed in order to drive big brother or sister to the high school several times a day.</p>
<p>Third, much has been written about the need for children to have down-time. We've already over-scheduled them during the academic year. Do we have to crowd every waking minute of their summer days too?</p>
<p>So I'm not saying that summer practices should necessarily be eliminated. But I am saying that making them mandatory--either explicitly or de facto-- and hounding those that can't or don't choose to attend is excessive. Our school is large and most teams have cuts. Why not let tryouts speak for themselves? If the kid is rusty and out of shape, it will show. Several weeks before school starts is time enough to get the whole team working together. It's plain ridiculous that some of these HS coaches even have a problem if the student misses practice because he's playing the sport with a town team or other group.</p>
<p>My daughter is middle school county champion in X-C and 2 track events. So if she chooses to run on her own in the evening day rather than drag herself out of bed at 6 AM every day in the summer, why should anyone care? Furthermore, many of these kids have overuse injuries and may need to take more days off than other kids or modify their training a bit. Unfortunately, they feel that they can't do that without risking their spot on the team.</p>
<p>My s and his team mates are out running every morning from around 9 til 11 then go swim at somebodies house. They are doing all they can to stay acclimated to the heat and to stay conditioned ALL summer so that when 2-a-days start a week from Monday, they will be ready. 2-a-days are from 8-11, then from 5:30-7:30 to keep them out of the heat of the day. They don't put pads on until the next week when school starts. Their first game is August 25th. I think they are doing all they can. Anybody who is going to be participating in sports this fall, whatever sport it is, should be out condidtioning now, being sure to stay hydrated, so that they can be ready for practices when school starts. I don't know what they are doing in Conyers, GA, I would be very surprised if they are already practicing, especially in pads, but I don't know when their schools start, so maybe. It is a tragedy, anytime a kids dies, it is a tragedy. Last year, a kid my son knew from another school died during a basketball game. It was in January, inside. It was determined that he had an enlarged heart. Most cases that I have heard about in Houston, it turned out that there was an underlying health reason for the collapse, usually an enlarged heart. Unfortunately, this condition is not caught in normal yearly checkups, so goes undetected. Certainly, over exertion, especially in the heat, can bring on the heart failure, and that is a tragedy. But, beyond never letting your kid run and play outside, or participating in any kind of athletic endeavor, I don't know how you can prevent that kind of death.</p>
<p>My S's football team is practicing 7a.m-10:30a.m. everyday this week including Saturday. Wore helmets with t-shirt and shorts the first 3 days. Will add shoulder pads for the next 3 days and go full gear next week and have 2-a-days to prepare for scrimmage next Fri. night. First real game is the following Fri. (the 18th). Let's hope the weather gods smile on the south and send some cooler temps. for these kids.</p>
<p>And on the flip side, as far as we know, our boys soccer team still has no coach. They have had a few practices this summer, led by seniors, but the attendance has been sparse. Especially in the heat. I have no idea when official practices start, or unofficial ones. There is a scrimmage schedule in 16 days. Should be interesting!</p>