<p>At major universities sports is important. A successful program helps boost applicant numbers and yield. Those two factors increase admission selectivity. It may not matter to you or your kids but in general it does matter to a wide range of people.</p>
<p>This is coming from someone on CC now and not watching the NFL playoffs and whose D could care less about all sports. But that does not make it any less true.</p>
<p>Look up the Flutie Factor and see what that did for Boston College. Also check the spike in applicants after Villanova beat Georgetown to win the NCAA basketball title.</p>
<p>Geographic diversity is enormously important, nysmile -- as important as any other brand of diversity you'd like to offer. A big part of any school is its national reputation; read any thread on here and you'll see that. The larger national reach a school like Stony Brook has, the more opportunities open up -- for current students, prospective students, and alumni. Yes, the financial piece is important; obviously, we get more tuition revenue from OOS students, but we can't just charge $35,000 a year and expect to get away with it. The more SUNY builds its national brand -- and it's getting out there, with the success that Stony Brook and Geneseo and Binghamton and Albany and Buffalo have had in the last few years, the better equipped our graduates are to be successful.</p>
<p>Chris, Thank you for giving the point of view as an admission's counselor at a SUNY. We are OOS. I have a relative who graduated from Oswego many moons ago and loved his experience there. He encouraged my son to look at some SUNYs. Frankly, it seems to me that many instate NY families really resent OOS students who want to matriculate to a SUNY unless they would be charged over 30k per year to attend. I did not get that feeling from admissions when we visited a SUNY, but the attitudes that I perceive as I read this thread, as well as the recent tuition increase of $2,260 next fall are really making wonder if a SUNY is good idea. I want my son to feel welcome as a student at his college/university and not be resented for taking a seat from an instate kid, or paying "too little", and I am wondering if the tuition increase is going to go up at by a couple of thousand or more every year for the next 4-6 years. Do you have any insight into future tuition increases?</p>
<p>northeastmom, no need to worry about an OOS kid attending SUNY. He'll be warmly accepted by everyone. When I post about increasing the OOS tuition, it's out of frustration that OOS students can come to SUNY for a great education for little above what an instate kid pays and take advantage of the same opportunities. If NY kids want to attend any of the public universities outside NY but within the northeast, they (and all OOS students) have to pay a very high cost in OOS tuition/room and board. On the other hand, the kids from those same northeastern states can come here for a cheap OOS rate. It's frustrating. I don't blame or resent the OOS kids or the parents for choosing SUNY's. It's a smart decision on their part.</p>
<p>NYSmile, I dont think that is really the question, or not the only question. The real question is what future OOS increases will look like. And Chris, we hear you, but the other part of this is political pressure -- will the state pressure the SUNYs to increase OOS tuition? No one is arguing with Chris, but there are other agendas -- inlcuding state legislators who have to listen to grips from constituents?</p>
<p>Next 4-6 years? I don't think anyone knows that. Based on history, I'd say we're probably a few years away from another jump; the last hike was 2002-03, I think. Personally, I'd prefer a reasonable increase every year instead of these big increases every few years -- much easier to plan -- but they don't consult me on these things. :)</p>
<p>One thing to know about SUNYs is that out-of-state students NEVER "take seats away" from in-state kids; the Directors of Admission systemwide have said as much.</p>
<p>The "problem" that SUNY's faced is that we have no single, enormous, flagship campus like Storrs or University Park. Honestly, though, I don't know that that's a bad thing; I think we offer a lot more options to our students than neighboring systems do, with enough overlap and cooperation within the system to make it an incredible value, regardless of where you're coming from. I'll put our educational opportunities and programs up against any in the country; they're really that good, but we've been so New York-resident-heavy in SUNY's short career that some of the country doesn't know it yet.</p>
<p>I started writing my response there an hour ago to northeastmom's post, but I'd like to address kayf's question too.</p>
<p>Is the pressure there to raise tuition further? Absolutely, yes. But SUNY will fight that, hard, because we know that we can't just double tuition and expect that to solve all the state's ills. The effect of a massive tuition hike on enrollment numbers could be disastrous, and could counteract any monetary good it might have done. Tuition went up now; I doubt it goes up again this year.</p>
<p>Perhaps in the past OOS did not take spots away from instate students, but this year could be shaping up differently. And just becuase SUNY admissions says OOS arent taking spots, I find it difficult to beleive parents will accept that. With more and more students shifting from private to public schools, unless the state is willing to dramactially increse the enrollment, there is a potential disconnect here. This is just about raising tuition for budgetary reasons, it may also be percieved as an equity issue -- why should NY take OOS at less than those same states will take NY students.</p>
<p>Chris, thanks for trying to read the tea leaves regarding OOS tuition hikes and for taking the time to post. Well, at least we have next year to see if there is another hike before deciding as to whether our son will matriculate to a SUNY.</p>
<p>nysmile, thanks for posting, but you're not alone in your frustration. As an OOS parent I still think that we would be paying a lot for our son's education. I would never consider the sticker prices of other OOS public universities. Our EFC is such that many private colleges would be less expensive than schools like Penn State (too big for my son anyway), UVM, UConn, just like many New Yorkers might agree. nysmile, btw, an OOS student can also go to UMinn. for 4k over the instate COA. SUNYs have a larger difference than 4k between OOS and instate tuition. Where are the threads from the taxpayers and parents from Minnesota? It is kind of interesting that New York taxpayers/parents seem so upset and unhappy about having OOS students and having them pay nearly 8500 per annum more than the instate student. An 8500 difference is substantial to my wallet!</p>
<p>Perhaps true for UMinn and others but I was referring to public universities in the northeast.
Conn., Penn., Maine, Vermont, Rhode Island.</p>
<p>New Yorkers are in no way unhappy about out of state kids attending SUNY schools. Students are students, kids are kids--we love them all. All I did was voice my opinion that I felt that the OOS tuition differential is still too low when compared to what our NY students must pay to attend OOS schools in other Northeastern states.</p>
<p>I'm a Minnesota parent and taxpayer. I think it's great that the University of Minnesota recently cut its OOS tuition to $4K over in-state tuition. It will attract a lot of highly qualified applicants from all over the country and all over the world, strengthening the University's student body and its national reputation. And many of those newcomers will decide they like Minnesota and stay after they graduate, strengthening the University's historic role as a major "talent magnet" and engine of economic growth in the dynamic, knowledge-based economy we're building in the Twin Cities metro area. Sure, it means some less qualified Minnesota kids won't get in to the state flagship, but they'll still have plenty of other options, including satellite campuses of "the U," a strong system of Minnesota State Colleges and Universities (separate from the University of Minnesota system), and community colleges. But the best qualified Minnesota residents who apply, are accepted, and decide to attend the U will get a better education than ever, because the University will be a stronger school. And that's good for the state of Minnesota.</p>
<p>One of the great things about SUNY is that there is space for everyone. We have over 400,000 students system-wide; there's enormous value there for every student, regardless of interests or wants. Not everyone can get into Stony Brook or Binghamton or Geneseo -- and not everyone wants to; that's why you have the Oneontas and Plattsburghs and Potsdams and Delhis and community colleges... to offer a different look to students. If Stony Brook has to raise its admissions criteria because of an overwhelming volume of applicants, then the other schools will -- and have -- kept up. Look at a campus like Old Westbury; they've made quantum leaps the last few years.</p>
<p>I think many parents will find the statements "If Stony Brook has to raise its admissions criteria because of an overwhelming volume of applicants" and "One thing to know about SUNYs is that out-of-state students NEVER "take seats away" from in-state kids; the Directors of Admission systemwide have said as much" lacking in credibility unless the SUNYs release admissions data for instate and OOS seperately. Unless the OOS show a clear and convincing difference in quality, parents will be complaining. Trust me. These complaints are happening in other states as we speak -- it will be happening at SUNY.</p>
<p>I dont envy admissions personnel right now. While applications are up, it can't be easy to tell if what enrollment will look like. Many of the SUNYs have only recently joined the Common Application -- meaning for $40, many students will easily add additional schools.</p>
<p>If I wasnt clear, to say the system as a hole will not allow seats to be taken away, will not be sufficient to placate NY parents. They will be demanding to see OOS and Instate summary of GPA/SATs by institution, which SUNY posts in total by institution. If the data doesnt support that OOS are significantly better qualified, my guess is they will be demanding that the Trustees move to a more market level of tuition, and review of any institution provided financial aid.</p>
<p>BTW, New Jersey is charging a smaller difference at Montclair State (a non-flagship, but respected state university) for the out of state student, than the SUNY system is charging their OOS students for a non-flagship SUNY.</p>
<p>Congrats on searching until you found a college in the northeast that supports your argument. I don't think many students in NY would choose Montclair over their own public instate SUNY's. They may however, like to have the opportunity to attend University of Vermont, University of Rhode Island, UConn, University of New Hampshire, University of Maine, or Penn. if they did not charge such a large differential in OOS compared to instate. For years, OOS students have had the luxury of paying a very small tuition differential for attending SUNY's as OOS students. Even with the current increase, it is still a fabulous opportunity---great price for a great education and with opportunities to pick from a wide variety of majors and minors. In general (in regards to the Northeast), SUNY is still cheaper at an OOS rate(tuition/room/board) than attending many other public universities at their instate price(tuition/room/board.). I'm surprised more OOS parents don't take advantage of this opportunity for their children. The weather and locations of the schools may play a part in this. </p>
<p>I did not search to find a school that supports my argument. I posted what Rutgers charges in black and white. I stated very clearly that Montclair is not the state's flagship, but it is still a good school. SUNYs are not all flagships either. I was finding a non-flagship in NJ so that we can compare the OOS pricing of that to the non-flagship schools in NY. I think you should compare apples to apples. I stated the facts. I am sorry that you do not like those facts.</p>
<p>Northeast, it still shows that Rutgers charges appreciably more for NY residents than SUNY charges for OOS, and that it is only marginally more expensive for NJ people to go to SUNY than Rutgers. To me that is problematic. It would cost a NY resident more to go to Montclair State than a NJ resident to go to SUNY. That it also problematic.</p>
<p>That the differential may be equivalent is not the entire picture, and the letters to the editor in NY papers are already starting on this.</p>
<p>The cost this year for OOS is 23850 at Cortland. The OOS cost at Montclair I believe is 26644, so you are correct using this example that Cortland is nearly 2800 less to OOS students than Montclair is to OOS students. The cost difference changes if we add 2060 more for Cortland next year... cost will be 25910. I don't know if Montclair will have another price increase next year (I assume that they will).</p>
<p>I will also say that NJ does something that I have yet to hear about SUNYs doing. I was told by someone working in admissions at Ramapo College (another NJ public) that if a New York resident attends Rockland Community College (part of the Suny system), that they may attend Ramapo if accepted for INSTATE tuition after they graduate from RCC! Please go ahead and verify the information, because I do not have it in writing. I guess you can verify this with RCC or Ramapo. Does a student from NJ get the opportunity to attend a NJ junior college for 2 years and then get instate tuition at a 4 year SUNY college? If there is a deal like that, I would love to learn about it!</p>
<p>It all comes down to supply and demand. If SUNY schools could charge more and still get enough out of state tuition they would. They do not charge less to help oos students and hurt the in state kid. Remember every oos state kid actually subsidizes an in state kid- they pay more for the same education be happy you get the subsidy. When the SUNY system becomes more desirable they will increase tuition for out of state students.
NEmom- Ramapo must want to increase the % of out of state kids and will do so by keeping cost down- I guess they compete with SUNY New Paltz for some kids. Again supply and demand- I would not be bothered if they actually charged all oos kids the same if they felt it helped their academic reputation.</p>