super awesome discussion thread GO

College Confidential Community
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<p>Okay, I'm a17 year old kid, and I'll give my opinion on college. liberal parents here. No career pressures in my house at all.</p>

<p>College, for most people, is a place that the American rich people go to to waste 200,00 dollars, by partying all the time, doing drugs, and never going to class. At the better universities the situation isn't as bad, because the kids usually go to class, but many are still mostly there for the partying . "finding yourself" is a load of crap. "finding your passions" is crap too. By the time you're 18, you should have found any passions that you have. If you don't find anything, it means you have no passions. Seriously, after four years of highschool, you should have a good idea of what you like, what kind of work you like, and what you want to do. If you don't, it means you don't like work, witch isn't a bad thing, its very normal not to, and it definatly doesn't mean you're a bad person . This just means that you probably shouldn't go to college, because if you do, you'll end up boozing in smoking, and learning nada. If you want to have money, go to a community college and become a mechanic or something. You'll make more than someone with a bs libral arts degree and no professional degree (witch requries a level of tolerance twards academic work to achieve) will make, and its less stressfull (if you dont like academic work). You should also know who you are by the time you're 18, with no need to "find yourself"- if you can't this is bad, as it means you are simply so boring and unremarkable that even you yourself can't think of anything that makes you unique or interesting, witch is quite sad.</p>

<p>People should look at college as training for a future career, because if they don't, they shouldn't be in college, as they will just be wasting their time. Now, I'm not saying you have to be training for a "good paying" job-you don't have to become a doctor or a lawyer or an engineer or whatnot- just a job, a job that will make use of your college education and be interesting to you. This means stuff like art and music and journalism are included, because those fields are very techical, require college degrees, and if you're into that kinda thing, very rewarding and personally satisfying even if you won't be raking in mounds of cash. You should only get a degree in liberal arts or something useless like that unless you plan to get a PhD and get into acadamea, or get a professional degree, because otherwise you'll be flipping burgers and your college education, that you put so much time and money into, will be a total waste.</p>

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<p>for the most part true. a lot of people go to college just because it is what is expected and don’t really feel passionate abt. what they are learning. they even trick themselves into believing that they are motivated about learning when they really just are interested in competing. i think there are a lot of smart people that really don’t belong in college, even though they could get into a very good one if they wanted to. However, there are people where college is just the right place for, too, and we shouldn’t forget them.</p>

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<p>Ok so I’ll agree with some points.</p>

<p>The American system of education puts a far higher emphasis on getting a college degree than almost any other county. The belief is that if you want to make decent cash you have to have to go to college, which because its believed is becoming true. Because of that alot of people who are only motivated by parent pressure or economic concerns end up in college and then simply dropping out after a year or so. Some people could put themselves to better use, and probably enjoy themselves more by going to technical school. In France students take a test in about 9th grade to see if they are qualified to continue to attend upper level high school and move on to university. The other students move to vocational schools where they can learn a trade to support themselves with. In America there is the sense (especially with the no child left behind act) that every student has and equal potential. I wont get into socioeconomic factors because its just a mess but frankly closing failing schools wont do anything. Failing students might just need redirection to skills that they can make a trade of. Thre are some people who, despite hours of work will never understand geometry but could becoem an excellent baker. </p>

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<p>Here I’ll disagree. I’ve known so many people, at least a quarter of the college grads I know including my mother, that went into college with one career plan and passion and came out with another. College simply offers more options both in breadth and depth. On the one hand a student who is bored by dinky science labs in highschool could be suddenly facinated by a lecture on mycology, a subject they had never considered before. Alternatively a student who believes they want to major in zoology can’t take the extended dissections (My mom switched degrees after being bitten by a gerbil she was literally stuffing into a blender).</p>

<p>I don’t think that just because a student is undecided means that they don’t belong in college. </p>

<p>College, if entered responsibly, can be a stepping stone into the real world. Living with a room mate, away from parents but still with administrative oversight means that its a balance between full responsibility and being baby sat. Students should have responsibillity for their actions. I agree that any student that parties hard enough to impact their education negatively is not acting in their best interests but college is at least a little about having fun. Again you have nearly full responsibility for your actions but you don’t have the joy kills of paying rent and holding down a job.</p>

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<p>Perhaps, but that doesn’t mean your college degree always dictates your job. An english major or “liberal arts” majors which you seem to believe are useless, can get jobs in multiple fields. I have a family friend who got a massters in anthropology, but now has a high paying job doing statistics and data support for a large university. He makes upwards of 120,000 a year. Bachelor degrees do not go deep enough into a field to really merit an expertise. Instead they are more of proof of how you like to think. I math major has more generally applicable higher logic skills while a philosophy major is probably able to deal with more abstract thoughts. If philosophy majors had to become philosophers the major would die pretty quick. </p>

<p>I think of a college degree more of proof of your dedication and accomplishment. As you have said there are plenty of people who smoke and drink their way through college. Plenty of these people will drop out. Those that don’t will likely be overwhelmed by a real job where they have to be serious or be unable to find adequate references to land a good job in the first place. Being an undergrad is more about having dedication to learning and your life and actually becoming an expert in a field. If you know that you are interested in something technical, like the sciences or business, awesome. But students with business degrees can have just as hard of a time finding a job as english majors.</p>

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<p>It’s obvious that you are very liberal in your thinking, well let me then pose the opposite since I am very conservative.</p>

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<p>In this you are certainly making a blown up generalization about the agenda of college students. Yes, SOME kids may go to college simply for the partying, but a majority go because they have an interest in mind and wish to pursue it. The idea of partying becomes a simple afterthought that is almost icing on the cake for some kids. To say that MOST people going to college tend to be wealthy individuals who only want some excitement is way off base. I find your notion to be on the verge of ridiculous.</p>

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<p>You apparently have no experience in the real world. A person in high school and below certainly do not have an absolutely clear understanding of THEIR passions. They have only been exposed to what is right in front of them, not to all of the other things that are hidden by maybe parents or the basic school curriculum or anything of that sort. How many kids get experience in all the subjects which are open to them (as mcclee stated above)? There are so many careers that most students have no idea about. When they go to college, they discover these new areas and one may possibly be interesting. So “finding your passion” is very probable in college and your viewpoint on this is extremely narrow.</p>

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<p>You realize that this advice is full of flaws? Not to say a Community College is a bad thing as they are great alternatives to high priced tuition, but to tell someone to just go to a CC and become a mechanic is certainly misguided. For one, they are probably not going to make more money than a “BS” Liberal Arts Degree. The Liberal Arts encompasses such a wide array of topics that this generalization is preposterous. While I agree that some Liberal Arts majors really do not seem to benefit anybody, I do not believe that all are “BS”. You realize that Mathematics and Science are coupled in with Liberal Arts don’t you? If you believe that getting a degree in Chemistry is BS then I’d say that you need to further your own education. And also, many people right out of a bachelors degree can make a surprisingly high income. So to say that you can’t make more money with a Liberal Arts Degree than a Mechanic can is ridiculous. I don’t see why Mechanics are put into a low position either, because they are very necessary for many people in order to go about their day.</p>

<p>I’m not even going to waste my time commenting on your other notions, because this is getting rather boring. Just make sure you know what you are talking about before you say something.</p>

<p>Liberal Arts = literature, language, history, science, math, and philosophy</p>

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<p>I’ve never considered anything that uses math in any degree to be a liberal art, because its a science. Now science may “technically” be a liberal art, but nobody cares. I meant non-science liberal arts. Way to grab at straws</p>

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<p>I think exactly the same way.</p>

<p>It’s stupid to want to go to the best college just for the “looks”, “money”, or “just cuz you have to”</p>

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<p>I don’t even know how to respond to this. You sir have no clue what you are talking about and it definitely shows.</p>

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<p>^
SpacePope has a point though.</p>

<p>When people say liberal arts, many times they are not thinking of sciences</p>

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<p>^ and that’s the problem with generalizations. Liberal Arts encompasses a large range and to simply say that it in general is useless is ridiculous.</p>

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<p>Unfortunately I have to agree with SpacePope by saying that while a LibArts degree technically includes science, when people dis LA majors as SpacePope is doing, they’re referring to the more abstract, “artsy” majors like philosophy, polysci, english etc.</p>

<p>But thats not the point. Because, especially if you take SpacePopes position, I think the argument is whether these degrees are useful. I think there are some cases in which students wimp into LA arts degrees, but that doesn’t mean that they are useless. </p>

<p>This site is mildly useful.
[What</a> Can I Do With a Liberal Arts Degree?](<a href=“http://www.careerbuilder.com/Article/CB-417-Getting-Hired-What-Can-I-Do-With-a-Liberal-Arts-Degree/?ArticleID=417&cbRecursionCnt=1&cbsid=0a2bd58aa42649f1814e8c332d7f0af7-315875252-RG-4&ns_siteid=ns_us_g_what_to_do_with_a_lib_]What”>http://www.careerbuilder.com/Article/CB-417-Getting-Hired-What-Can-I-Do-With-a-Liberal-Arts-Degree/?ArticleID=417&cbRecursionCnt=1&cbsid=0a2bd58aa42649f1814e8c332d7f0af7-315875252-RG-4&ns_siteid=ns_us_g_what_to_do_with_a_lib_)</p>

<p>SpacePope, you seem to be arguing that only people with real passion should go to college, what if their passions seem to be -at least in your eyes- useless?
If a student goes to college already knowing their passions (as we all apparently should) and they are passionate about psychology is it morally wrong for them to major in Liberal Arts? Even if they don’t want to “go into Academia?” </p>

<p>Where would we get children’s book authors? English Teachers? PR people? Translators? Graphic Designers? </p>

<p>Plenty of upper level management jobs as store clerks and other jobs that you wouldn’t find a college or technical degree to go with require having a college degree. English and Psycology Majors would likely be good at these jobs because they have a way with words and understand how people think, respectively. </p>

<p>And I I stated above, college has become more of a hoop to jump through to prove you are a responsible person. Its less about actual skills learned, and more about provn you can think. Many employers are looking for more creative minded types in the business place- typically libarts majors.</p>

<p>I can see that technical and scientific degrees have more concrete applications, but that doesn’t mean liberal Arts degrees are BS.</p>

<p>FYI this isn’t a personal bias, trying to weakly defend my life. I’m planning on majoring in Biosciences or Premed. My older sister is pursuing a neuroscience major. but I don’t believe that every Liberal Arts degree is useless. Like I said above, if everyone with a LibArts degree ended up flipping burgers and no one was able to make it by with a bachelors in philosophy, no one would major in such things. But people do succeed so there is demand. Simple supply and demand.</p>

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<p>I like to party. I like going to class too. Good thing is at college one can excel at both.</p>

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<p>I will admit that yes, this is true, but he takes a very childish approach to the whole matter. I just wanted to throw some solid facts into his groundless argument.</p>

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<p>If “non-science Liberal Arts” majors make no money like you say they do, then why do millions of college students major in these subjects? There are a small percentage of jobs that require a science degree. There are also jobs that require certain liberal arts degrees.</p>

<p>And I am definitely in favor of doing what you want to do, not what your parents want you to do. I am only a freshman, but I’ve luckily realized that the pre-med and science major route is not my thing. I love Psychology (major) and Film (minor) way too much to not take as many classes as possible in these subjects. So I’ve made up my mind to not take any non-Psych science classes. And I am SO happy with this decision. Yes, I could go to med school and become a Psychiatrist, but I would have to be under so much stress/no sleep and learn so much stuff I don’t want to learn in the process that it’s not worth it for me. I love the mind. I love people. That’s all. I’m not going to hinder my chances of getting into a Psych grad school by taking many pre-med classes that I hate and may not well in (I fail at math and physics). I could have received a 4.0 this semester, but Organic Chemistry brought that down to a 3.78.</p>

<p>After going to a pretty decent college for only one semester so far, yes, people party and smoke lots of weed… but they also do very well in school. Some people are good at balancing work with play.</p>

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<p>I disagree on many points. I don’t think life is all about knowing what you want to do and taking the most direct route to get there.</p>

<p>For lack of a better phrase, I think life is a journey. What you do througout those in-between points in your life, whether you go to college, travel, get a job, or spend hours playing video games in your parents’ basement, helps shape the rest of your life. Whether you do something practical or not, as long as you’re doing something you love, I disagree that college is a waste of time. It’s not for everyone, so some people who go probably shouldn’t, but it is does pay off for most people. College gives the opportunity to network and gain contacts for future jobs, to expand your horizons and make friends (especially if you’re from a tiny town), and to transition from the spoon-feeding world of high school to the “real world.”</p>

<p>And there’s nothing wrong with partying. If that’s what you enjoy in life and you don’t get into a ton of trouble of screw up, then why not?</p>

<p>I also disagree that people find their passions by the time they’re 18. Maybe if you’ve had a lot of opportunities to do different things, you’ll have found a passion. But there are plenty of people who spend all their time in a crappy school with no options and then work after school, so they don’t have a lot of time to be exposed to anything they might actually like. I agree that 18 year-olds should have interests, and at least a vague interest in where they want to go in life, but who are you (and anyone else) to say that they should have their lives figured out? Good for you if you know exactly what you want to do, but not everyone is that lucky.</p>

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<p>^
but every journey has a destination, and people should work to reach that destination</p>

<p>But the thing is, going to college is not necessarily trying to reach that destination (that is if you even have one)</p>

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Is American higher education really that weak? Seems plausible, but I wouldn’t know. I think that there is a belief going around in Europe that higher studies as such make you into a better and more adjusted person. Drugs and drinking is mainly for the people who live on the streets. But because you’re such a fancy bourgeois person, you can treat yourself to a night out, even if that happens oh well three or four or five times a week. </p>

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I couldn’t have said it better myself. Do you realize how right you are?</p>

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Exactly, one’s primary focus should be to support oneself. If you’re rich and don’t need to, though, then you can just do whatever, right? Going into higher studies in order to be able to support yourself is severely deluded, because higher education is not at all adjusted to the needs of the labour market. </p>

<p>If you don’t know who you are by the time you’re 18 it could also mean that your personality is very dynamic and evolving. You can only define yourself in the immediate now. I say it doesn’t matter who you are or what passions you have, because that will change anyway. </p>

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Higher studies should bring about a thorough preparation for life. If you’re just there to socialize, then some serious questions arise about what you will learn and how well prepared you will be for the life that’s waiting for you outside of the university walls. Most importantly, how will you be able to support yourself if you didn’t learn anything through your studies?</p>

<p>A long time ago highly qualified professions weren’t taught at universities! You were taught stuff like Latin, Greek, Music, Gymnastics, Math etc. I’m talking about the Greek school and the development of higher education in Europe during the last millenium. Instead, higher professions were taught at the workplace. College studies should be regarded as a modern version of those old forms of introduction into a profession.</p>

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<p>True, maruhan2 but I still believe more in enjoying life wherever it takes you rather than worrying about the end result.</p>

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<p>Another point is that you don’t learn anything you wouldn’t be able to learn outside of the school.</p>

<p>What you learn is basically an extensive set of psychological defences to help you cope with the reasons for needing to get into college and waste your time in the first place, and to help you cope with the fact that all you acquired there was fictitious.</p>

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<p>I won’t defend the university system as a whole, because I think there is much room for improvement. However, it goes both ways. I don’t think anybody can reasonably argue “university is pointless” or “university is the best and only way.” I think everyone’s answer is somewhere in-between. More importantly, that in-between opinion is heavily dependent on the individual.</p>

<p>First, university isn’t for everybody. Unfortunately, our society is structured so that university is a requirement for joining the workforce in many, if not most, instances. Despite this, there are more people who don’t belong in college than those who do. I go to a nerd school; everyone works hard, even the “slackers.” We have a reputation (sadly deserved) of students who cry over a B or B-. However, even out of the large number of intellectuals here, I can tell you, a sizeable portion of them have no business being here. They’re not ready for the responsibility of being a serious, full-time student. They drink and party away their 20k. </p>

<p>There will always be party-ers in college. It’s a given. But there will also be the people who can’t develop their talents and skills further without higher education. To stop after high school would be foolish. I consider myself one such person. I have an insatiable appetite for knowledge and I work hard. I would be bored out of my MIND if I didn’t go to college to meet the challenges of the next level. I think that most people are like this too. The difference is not in curiosity or intelligence, but in work ethic. Being a true student is difficult. It’s a grinding, exhausting process. Most people don’t have the patience or the willingness to sacrifice their time and energy, so college is not the right choice for them, but only because they’re not willing to bite the bullet. The maturity component comes into play because of how it directly impacts work ethic. Individuals with a more mature, adult perspective realize that a) being a student is much better than jumping into the workforce, b) you will work hard during your life no matter what you do, and c) the purpose of an education is to develop real, tangible, and transferable skills. The idiots who plunk down 20-40k to grow up don’t grasp this at all. Don’t look at them and think that all students are like that.</p>

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<p>I didn’t bother reading all the responses- I read the OP’s views and have something to say. </p>

<p>Most of what the OP wrote is a rehashing of stuff that’s been discussed and argued about all over the internet. Spend 20 minutes with Google, and you’ll have several days’ worth of reading material saying these things. Also, for a more academic treatment of this topic, check out the writings of Charles Murray (The Bell Curve, Real Education), Thomas Sowell, Richard Vedder, and friends (visit the Cato Institute’s website, too). Yes, some people shouldn’t be in college.</p>

<p>The OP wrote thinks that finding yourself in college is a load of ****. I agree, but for different reasons. OP believes that if you haven’t figured yourself out yet, you never will. I think that if you think you figured yourself out, you’re fooling yourself. I don’t think you’ll figure yourself out in college either. The whole “finding your passions” thing is nonsense. People make it sound as if one day, you’ll realize what you like, and you’ll stick with that for life. Not so. People are constantly changing, and you don’t just figure yourself out and then your done. It happens over time, and as you live, you learn more about yourself. You never finish finding yourself, and as your live, you’ll change.
College is a terrible place to learn about yourself and the world. You’d be better off working, trying out different jobs, experiencing different things, and seeing where you end up. A classroom is no substitute for the real thing.</p>