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<p>I think your daughter has realistically assessed her chances. Why push her to plunge into what will very likely be a disappointment? Maybe she is trying to spare herself the pain of the rejection.</p>
<p>I dont really think taking 2 SAT IIs is that big a deal. They are only an hr long. She should have taken them at the end of the semester, when the info was fresh in her head.
I totally understand your d’s love of Rice (full disclosure- one of my kids went there) but I also agree that odds are slim unless she has some serious hook. </p>
<p>As long as she has a solid list of schools that are really within her reach, its not a bad thing to apply. Keep in mind-- acceptances were a bit of a bloodbath this year.
Good luck</p>
<p>As long as your D does not expect to get into Rice, what’s the harm. One reach isn’t a big deal as long as the rest are safeties/matches. Why pick a more reasonable reach that she doesn’t even like? That seems silly to me</p>
<p>Her daughter has decided not to apply to that school. Why should her mother encourage her?</p>
<p>There are thousands of schools in this country, including many that the daughter might like far more than she originally liked Rice. Other schools also might fit her better.</p>
<p>Weigh the expected payoff…</p>
<p>Come up with a reasonable probability of admission, based upon your best guess, and multiply that by the value of admission. Multiply (1 - probability of admission) by the sum cost of the application and the value of the time spent on the application.</p>
<p>No point in being emotional about logical decisions. Though you could also try to account for the emotional stress of her knowing that she didn’t apply, and the feeling that it could have been. Come up with a loss due to that and subtract that from the sum of the cost of the application and value of time spent on the application.</p>
<p>We’re talking about a student with a 3.4, SAT scores in the 500s, and no APs. Her chances of getting into Rice are close to zilch.</p>
<p>There are, however, plenty of colleges in this country that would gladly accept her, and where she probably would be extremely happy. </p>
<p>This would be a good time to help her discover and fall in love with a college that would reciprocate her love and where she would flourish.</p>
<p>OK. Northstar, Rice is not my dream. It was D’s. She has found another college that she really likes, a better match with her stats and she’s excited about that. But my point was, she will never know about Rice unless she applies. Like that cliche, you miss 100 percent of the shots you don’t take. She doesn’t think she will be admitted so a rejection would not be a major crushing blow. But I think sometimes you have to aim high and this is a once in a lifetime opportunity. There will be all kinds of rejections in life but you don’t have to just give up at the gate. I would rather encourage her to TRY.</p>
<p>^^Agreed… my system was more of a general rule. Even so, I’m pretty sure if she were honest about it, she’d see an overwhelming “DON’T APPLY” shouting back at her, unless that emotional stress for her would be extremely high.</p>
<p>NSM, the dd shouldn’t fall in love with any school as college admissions, like love, is fickle. I maintain there’s nothing wrong with applying to reach as long as everyone understands how unlikely it is to actually be accepted. Apply to Rice if you love it, but find like schools where the chances of admission are better.</p>
<p>Time to aim high is not when you are applying. OP’s daughter is not at the gate, she is at the finishing line.</p>
<p>My concern about your daughter’s applying to Rice is the cost of doing so–not the application fee, but the cost in terms of time and effort that won’t therefore be available to spend on other, more realistic applications. Some seniors feel that the application process is equivalent to taking an additional high school class. There are things that are worse than not ever knowing whether she could have gotten into Rice: giving her other applications short shrift because she spent too much time on the long shot, or running out of time to complete the application for the match school that she likes because she did Rice’s application first.</p>
<p>I recommend waiting until she has completed her other 5 or 6 applications to discuss with her whether she should also apply to Rice. You might find that the answer to your original question becomes obvious.</p>
<p>She might not be crushed, but she might feel like she let you down. Rice is a great school, but there are lots of great schools. What kind of history is she interested in?</p>
<p>OP, I understand your point about not wanting her to always wonder…hmm…I wonder what would have happened if I’d been accepted to Rice.</p>
<p>OTOH, I can think of many junctures in my life, some of them even at your D’s age, some later, when I had to make a “go/no go” decision on an important (life-changing?) matter, and there is no
way I will ever know what might have been…</p>
<p>The road NOT taken is part of life.</p>
<p>I do, though, understand your wanting to clarify that this was D’s dream, not something you have pushed upon her, and as a mother, I definitely understand your desire to look twice before allowing her to walk away from something that has meant a great deal to her. I do get that. Still, FWIW, I’d encourage and support her in moving on.</p>
<p>If she can articulate her passion for history through her application she has a shot at it. But subpar SATs (for Rice) might break her.</p>
<p>@OP: Everyone here has somewhat of a point. However, I am a firm believer in pursuing your dreams. Your daughter can go to a different school, try not to fall in love with it, and proceed to transfer. It IS possible.</p>
<p>I have to wonder if the worst thing that could happen to OP’s daughter is that Rice were to accept her. Most of the smart kids in high school who end up in place like Rice pretty much coast through high school and don’t really have to make a serious effort until they get to college. If the daughter has truly been “hard working” throughout high school, she’s probably already pushing her personal capacity. Finding a good fit means finding a school where one is challenged but not overly stressed.</p>
<p>“She doesn’t think she will be admitted so a rejection would not be a major crushing blow.”</p>
<p>It can be amazing how much people can delude themselves into thinking they have chances at schools they have no chances at getting accepted to. Just look at the chances threads here on CC. Students will keep asking the same questions over and over in hopes that someone will say they have a chance of getting into some school that is a distant reach school.</p>
<p>If you let your daughter move on – as she wisely is trying to – she’ll forget about Rice and get excited about some place that’s more possible for her. If you encourage her to apply to Rice, a place where she has next to no chance of being accepted, she may fear she’ll disappoint you if she’s rejected.</p>
<p>I agree with others that this isn’t the start of the college application process. This is close to the end of the application process.</p>
<p>The start of the process was much earlier in her high school career – when she chose her courses and, for instance didn’t take APs (which may be one reason why her score are average. Rigor of the curriculum correlates with SAT scores).</p>
<p>There’s a difference between having REACH schools on the list that are very chancy odds but where one has SOME chance of admission, and FAR (out of) REACH schools where one’s odds of acceptance are close to zero. I encourage the former and I discourage the latter as being not realistic at all.</p>
<p>Is your daughter in the top 10% of her high school class? top 25%? lower? 85% of those accepted to Rice are in the top 10% of their HS class and 94% are in the top 25%. If your daughter is not in the top 25% of her class, she’d need something very compelling to override that. A major hook would help or else having everything else be top notch in her profile. </p>
<p>Only 10% of those accepted to Rice have a Critical Reading score below 600 and only 9% have a Math score below 600. We don’t know how far below your D has on these subtests. But with an acceptance rate below 23% overall to Rice, that would mean the acceptance rate for someone who had an SAT score on a subtest in the 500s would be at a very very low rate. And those who have a score that low, likely had excellent grades or demanding curriculums or class rank or something to balance that out, or had a hook such as URMk, athletic recruit, first generation, underrepresented geographic location, a major achievement of significance, etc. </p>
<p>Does your school offer AP or Honor courses? Rice considers rigor of high school curriculum as very important. Your D’s chosen curriculum is examined in the context of what your HS offers.</p>
<p>If your daughter had one thing low for Rice on her record such as rigor of curriculum, class rank, SATs, ECs, that would be one thing but if all these things are on the very lowest end of admissions at Rice, the odds become close to nil for her. </p>
<p>Reach high but reach for something that is within grasp. </p>
<p>I run into m any students and parents who are not realistic at all. A college list should be made up of reaches, matches, and safeties that are relative to someone’s qualifications. </p>
<p>PS…oldfort, I don’t know anything about your D, but if just ONE subscore on her SAT is 690 and the others are higher and she has all As and just the one B, and with the most demanding curriculum at her high school, I certainly would not rule out Yale on that basis!</p>
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<p>That’s a more realistic plan IMO. Read through the stats of the high school kids who get accepted over on the Rice board. You won’t see any kids with SAT sections in the 500s.</p>
<p>If the dream is Rice, encourage her to make her dream come true by earning very good grades at another college and applying to transfer. Telling her to apply now for what will almost certainly be an automatic rejection is not helping her pursue that dream.</p>
<p>Also, can you define what you meant by “good ECs” and “one or two hooks”?</p>