Superpowers - USA #1 forever?

College Confidential Community
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<p>Subjecttochange,</p>

<p>I'd like to see a source, preferably academic and well-written, that argues that America has no culture.</p>

<p>Last I checked, no people existed without culture (read: in a vacuum), whether borrowed or not. The US has a strong Anglo-Saxon cultural history (largely borrowed, of course, from the UK) with infusions of European Enlightenment Era thinking and a touch of "frontier libertarianism." If you want a primer on how early a distinct American culture developed, Tocqueville is an interesting source.</p>

<p>I also wonder, perhaps, where you would place jazz and Gershwin-esque into your "cultureless" paradigm?</p>

<hr>

<p>China is likely to become an interesting challenge to American hegemony in the next few decades, but I am a bit concerned about the non-performing loans, lack of a meaningful political idendity, and the serious schism growing between the haves and have nots. Of course, the latter is a problem in the US as well, but the degree in the PRC is just outrageous.</p>

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<p>America's pop culture is really only a fraction of American culture. Coming from an American citizen's standpoint, it's really hard to see what American culture is. Usually identifying one's own culture requires a different culture to compare to. This causes most Americans to lose consciousness of their own culture. An example would be European countries who have many different cultures living in very closely. I speak primarily English, and I don't notice the big deal until I visit Europe or Japan. Most people I meet can speak English, MY language. It'd seem logical that if I visit a foreign country, I should have to know THEIR language. Even though American culture isn't readily discernable, it is very pervasive, and it's extremely influential. </p>

<p>American culture resides in its civil rights and freedoms. Freedom to religion, freedom to speech, freedom to live without fear, simply put it's the constitution and bill of rights. This culture is what is hated so much about America. Many socialistic countries absolutely abhor these ideas, but they cannot say it publicly. America frequently criticizes on Russia, China, and other countries human rights violation. Human rights violation? It's actually actions that are wrong in the eyes of America. Russia and China really don't think highly of the "freedom" ideals (which is our culture). Heck not even Europe has the amount of freedom of speech we have. Those who claim that the holocaust does not exist are subject to jail time. </p>

<p>We walk into Iraq and Afghanistan to force them into American culture. To force them into the democratic process, to force them into having Women's rights, etc. To force them into having our American freedoms because we think it's better for them. I personally think it is better for them, but I also recognize that many others do not think the same. If you look at recent history, our culture has literally partitioned countries. The Berlin wall, Northern and Southern Vietnam, Northern and Southen Korea. Aside from partitioning, our government has also incited revolutions, spreading our culture to combat Communism: the Iran-Contra affair. I forgot to add, some of the weapons that are being used by insurgents in Afghanistan and Iraq, are the weapons WE sold to them so that our culture will prevail over the Soviet culture.</p>

<p>Since I need to make breakfast, i'll keep the economic section short. China's leaders frequently model their free market reforms after America's. Even Kim Jong Il of North Korea has already begun capititalistic reforms (although not in those words). Kim Jong Il is modelling its reforms after South Korea, who is very Westernized. </p>

<p>Our culture is our language, values, ideals, symbols, traditions, objects: everything we are and everything we live in. If you look closely, you'll be sure to find it everywhere...</p>

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<p>Democratic and capitalistc ideals all originated from Europe, sure they flourished in America, but I would still mainly credit the Europen Enlightenment thinkers. </p>

<p>And English... is from England? Um, that's not American, I am sorry. </p>

<p>The world hates America in part because of different ideologies, but mostly because of America's militarism and arrogance. It is one thing to offer an alternative, it is quite another to force it down another's throat with war.</p>

<p>And I dont agree that America is even the most free country anymore, especially not since the Bush administration. This country's freedom is very much restricted by religious fundamentalism, and for this reason, America is not nearly as progressive as some of the Western and Northern European states, for it does not have SECULARITY in the public sphere. People in America go into panick when a picture of a woman breastfeeding is put on a magazine, that does not sound like freedom of expression/speech/sexuality to me. And abortion rights and gay marriage rights, those have been beaten to death already, but still restrictions of civil rights and personal freedom.</p>

<p>But if be freedom, you meant freedom given to corporates to exploit the general population, then yes, I would agree that America is the most "free" country in the world.</p>

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<p>"Our culture is our language, values, ideals, symbols, traditions, objects: everything we are and everything we live in. If you look closely, you'll be sure to find it everywhere..."</p>

<p>Well said. I'd like to see subjectochange find a retort to this. Even his critique of American culture is rooted in American assumptions.</p>

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<p>"Um, that's not American, I am sorry."</p>

<p>Um, guess what, American English is MOST DEFINITELY a cornerstone of American culture. We ain't talking about the Queen's English here, bud.</p>

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<p>No one is saying that America literally has NO culture. shiat, culture is so broad that I could start some secret hand signs with my friends, and call that culture. </p>

<p>The point is, with a meager 200 years of history, American culture does not compare to the richness of European and Asian culture. Name one American literary or philosophical work that's on par with the likes of "Crime and Punishment", "Dream of the Red Chamber", "Tao Te Ching", "Les Miserables".</p>

<p>The "lost generation" of influential American writers were all expats living in Europe, if that doesn't tell you something about the cultural void of America.</p>

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<p>The derivation and roots of American culture is very different from American culture being influential. You're absolutely right, that a significant root of Democracy comes from the European Enlightenment, but we're trying to debate the extent of American influence. Democracy, civil rights, and freedoms flourished in America, yes, but America by far has spread these ideals the most.</p>

<p>I probably did overstate the extent of America's freedoms, rather I should have said America's freedoms are unique in and of itself, and it is very influential.</p>

<p>"The world hates America in part because of different ideologies, but mostly because of America's militarism and arrogance. It is one thing to offer an alternative, it is quite another to force it down another's throat with war."</p>

<p>By IT, i'm assuming you're referring to the American culture that we are trying to force on others. :D</p>

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<p>subjecttochange,</p>

<p>Again, you're assuming a static concept of culture. American culture, from the arts to everyday life, is not the same as Europe. Even our closest ally, the UK, is not 100% alike. And yes, it's subtle. However, even subtle differences matter. </p>

<p>Like I said earlier (I'm assuming you either ignored me or just missed it), American culture was noted as being unique as early as de Toqueville's time. It has since then diverged from European culture even more.</p>

<p>A good example of a distinct American cultural identity is the almost complete lack of an American socialist or communist experiment. Whereas Europe and even Canada dabbled in socialism/populism, the US largely stayed in much more libertarian waters, preferring to let the states and people "sort it out for themselves." This is indicative, to an extent, of a unique culture. </p>

<p>But if there is no American culture, then what of Jazz? American folk music? The emergence of an American modern art movement? American literature? Andy Warhol?</p>

<p>The differences between American post-modernism and contemporary English writing are stark. Heck, American literature as early as Emerson diverged from the English roots.</p>

<p>These are all distinctive of a very unique American identity.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
The point is, with a meager 200 years of history, American culture does not compare to the richness of European and Asian culture.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Of course not. But it is still unique and surprisingly layered, once you get past the sort of gut-reaction that people have toward the notion of "American culture." Heck, just look at the incredible literary tradition alone. That's enough to distinguish it, even if you may not personally enjoy it.</p>

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<p>But richness, and the amount of text in a textbook (I know...the Chinese textbooks I have studied are the size of a baby), does not really say how influential a culture is, specifically in modern times. </p>

<p>I limit it to modern times because a debate that argues the derivation of culture which is inherently cumulative of the human experience, is endless. Heck, I could argue that the "Dream of Red Chamber" is not nearly as influential as the society who first began to write. See the paradox of arguing derivations?</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Name one American literary or philosophical work that's on par with the likes of "Crime and Punishment", "Dream of the Red Chamber", "Tao Te Ching", "Les Miserables".

[/quote]
</p>

<p>East of Eden, much of TS Eliot, Walden, Nature, A Farewell to Arms, The Old Man and the Sea, For Whom the Bell Tolls, some of Faulkner.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
And I dont agree that America is even the most free country anymore, especially not since the Bush administration. This country's freedom is very much restricted by religious fundamentalism, and for this reason, America is not nearly as progressive as some of the Western and Northern European states, for it does not have SECULARITY in the public sphere.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Heck, you could even argue that America's Christian"ness" is part of its unique cultural identity. But I'd like to see it demonstrated how we are noticeably "less free" than our European counterparts. In what respect are our freedoms abridged?</p>

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<p>""Crime and Punishment", "Dream of the Red Chamber", "Tao Te Ching", "Les Miserables"."</p>

<p>You are referring to the English translations of all these books</p>

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<p>Either way, all of the aforementioned are GREAT works. Monumental, even. But to discount the sublime existential beauty of Nature...or the deep power of The Old Man and the Sea is just foolishness.</p>

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<p>"East of Eden, much of TS Eliot, Walden, Nature, A Farewell to Arms, The Old Man and the Sea, For Whom the Bell Tolls, some of Faulkner."</p>

<p>Heh, questionable, some of these.</p>

<p>"Heck, you could even argue that America's Christian"ness" is part of its unique cultural identity. But I'd like to see it demonstrated how we are noticeably "less free" than our European counterparts. In what respect are our freedoms abridged?"</p>

<p>I think we are more free. I don't have to worry about not being able to perform a play with Muhammed in it without getting my theater bombed.</p>

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<p>Questionable, eh? I disagree. People tend to confuse "scope" or gradiosity with greatness. For example, Walden is a small, short little book. But its power over people worldwide has been huge.</p>

<p>But what other ones do you question?</p>

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<p>"Democracy, civil rights, and freedoms flourished in America, yes, but America by far has spread these ideals the most."</p>

<p>This is the same exact attitude that Evangelical Christians hold about spreading their religion, and it is the attitude that fuels American militarism and imperialism. Just because America has been able to impose a "democratic structure" in a few of her occupied territories like Japan or the Philipines, does not make the democratic ideals any less European. It is an attempt to hijack the intellectual products of European thinkers and claim it as their own. </p>

<p>Also precisely because there has never been a socialist movement in America, the democratic nature of America is fundamentally flawed, because the entirely of the political spectrum is not found in American politics. There is no true left wing party in America, and even the liberals of America are only liberal in relativity. so it is hardly even a true liberal democracy, because the left wing has been silenced and politically oppressed in America ever since the McCarthy era.</p>

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<p>Notice how a lot of those works you cited were from the lost generation writers? They were Americans, sure, but they lived in Europe. OOps.</p>

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<p>Yeah, I used English titles, since this is an English forum. What's your point?</p>

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<p>The Hudson river school writers that you cited were also advocates of withdrawing from American society and culture. OOps.</p>