<p>Agreed. </p>
<p>I’m so cheap I’d never pay $84k for a remodel or take out $84K in loans for college so I don’t need that msg 
but, yes, others might.</p>
<p>[Suze</a> Orman idiot - Google Search](<a href=“Suze Orman idiot]Suze - Google Search”>Suze Orman idiot - Google Search)</p>
<p>In the real world; including college; you can NEVER say that one school or form of education WOULD HAVE BEEN BETTER than another one. You can’t use retrospect in education. It’s not possible. You are always learning, and therefor it’s impossible to say how a student would have performed at 2 different schools.</p>
<p>The hard truth is; many of the $50,000 a year colleges are over rated and definitely over priced. You can get just as good an education from a State U charging $10,000 a year. You can get just as a good a social experience from a State U as you can from HYP. Going to an Ivy or $50K type school is mostly a status symbol. It’s not any different than buying the Mercedes instead of the Ford/Lincoln. You can buy equally luxurious cars but with 2 totally different price tags. </p>
<p>Now; there are times depending on a person’s major, work plans, etc… where 1 particular school could indeed be an advantage over another because of the name. But that’s normally only at the graduate school level or in the specialized fields. E.g. Harvard LAW over State U law. (If you want to work as a lawyer in a large firm or national attention). MIT over local degree in EE. (Again; only if your career is in the national community).</p>
<p>There isn’t 1 person that can prove that a Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Standford, etc… $50,000 a year education is better than a State U $10,000 a year education. it’s not possible to prove it. They will say, why do people pay the high price if it isn’t a better school? Simple; for the name and prestige. Remember; most of these Ivy’s and such were started when only the wealthy really pursued higher education. They were segregated to the rest of the population. For undergraduate studies, it is rare, if ever, that a high priced school will be any better than a state U priced school. At the graduate level; some times. But unfortunately; there are people out there that think it’s justifiable to go into 10-20 year debt for a Harvard education. That is nothing but pure rationalization. Then again; a large portion of our country tries to live beyond their means. They all think they are entitled to what their neighbor has instead of being entitled to what they can earn and afford.</p>
<p>Suze doesn’t know the kids. For all we know, these kids could have a learning disability that can’t be accommodated properly in a state school in Illinois. She’s gotta remember that not everybody is HER, and she went to school in very different times than these kids will. Of course, like most financial advisors, she assumes that a state school is equivalent to a private school. In many cases, they’re not.</p>
<p>If you’re talking about the quality of education; the learning potential of the degree; and the social expansion of the individual; then YES. Most state schools ARE equivalent to private schools. </p>
<p>If a person/family/parents/etc… can afford the $50K a year education, then go for it. it’s better than spending your money on drugs and prostitutes. But if you the average family in the country, making the average amount of money, then walking out of college with $200,000 in debt is stupid. Suzy is correct. But there’s lots of posts, studies, discussions, etc… on this subject. Most people agree that if the debt taken in amounts to 80% of what your expected starting income is; then you should be able to pay it off in 5 years and it’s worth it. If the debt is more than 80% of your starting salary, then you are not smart to take on that type of debt. E.g. $50,000 starting salary means having student debt of no more than $40,000. This will allow you to put $8-$9k a year for 5 years to pay the loan back. Starting with a $50K salary and having $80-$100K in debt is stupid. That will take around 10 years to pay back. It will then take another 10 years to compensate the expenditure. In other words, it will take almost 20 years before the so called educational debt breaks even and is no longer a liability. 80% is simple. 5 years payoff is simple.</p>
<p>Now you want to tell me that a Wharton degree is equivalent to a BBA from Arizona State? There are intangible benefits that private schools provide that public schools can’t.</p>
<p>What bothered me in the original Oprah segment is that it was all about Orman making the point she wanted to make and not about educating the family or others in their position.
This is a family of four with a family income this side of $100K. There was no mention that there was such a thing as a Fafsa or an EFC. The non-retirement savings were modest enough not to be assessed on the Fafsa. The bottom line is that there is no chance the parents would need to borrow anything like the amounts mentioned.
The likely result of the segment is for the casual public to discard thoughts of a private school or out-of-state public education.
Just a terrible job by Orman.</p>
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<p>What do you expect? Isn’t this the Oprah show? Would you pick your newest diet … or learn about financial aid or financial management from THAT show? </p>
<p>Audience expect to be “shocked” and entertained, not really educated. It’s all about quick and misleading soundbites.</p>
<p>Anyone would be better off picking up the “Financial Aid for Dummies” book at Borders than listening to the garbage presented on TV.</p>
<p>I do agree that the conversation should have included AFTER all financial scholarships, grants, and other free money; that it’s the actual DEBT that needs to be considered.</p>
<p>And yes Futurenystudent; for the AVERAGE student; an Arizona State education will be just as good as a Wharton education. I’ve already said that for certain jobs and certain degree levels, some schools pull a lot of weight and would therefor pay itself back. But for the average student, the answer is a resounding NO! The additional debt is not worth it. Other than the name and prestige; which doesn’t mean much to many in the real world; the education at the significantly more expensive school is not going to be significantly better. Definitely not for the price difference. But again, there are exceptions. If I want to be an engineer in the space industry, NASA, etc… then a degree from MIT would mean more than a degree from Arizona State. </p>
<p>What people fail to realize however is that MOST of the truly significant careers that fall into the prestigious or elite categories require much more than a BS/BA degree. They require graduate and PhD degrees. In these cases, it makes even LESS sense to go $100,000 into debt for the BS/BA degree. No one cares where your BA/BS degree came from if you have an MA/PhD. So, getting the BA/BS from a less expensive school is much more prudent. Then, save that money for the MA/PhD program at the more expensive school. But again; that’s only if you are going in the high profile and elite occupation in the prestigious market. I.e. If you want to work on Wall Street in Business compared to a financial firm in Utah, the Harvard business degree would be better. An EE wanting to work for NASA, research, Satellite systems, etc… would do better with a degree from MIT; whereby the EE working for a private electronics company would do better not going into as much debt.</p>
<p>Suze and Oprah are great pitch women. Suze makes millions selling generic, common sense financial advice.</p>
<p>
Sheeople do…;)</p>
<p><<suze makes=“” millions=“” selling=“” generic,=“” common=“” sense=“” financial=“” advice=“”>></suze></p>
<p>And if more people UNDERSTOOD the common sense of finances, we wouldn’t have so many people with subprime mortgages and credit card bills off the charts. Gee, should I take this loan where I’m not paying any principal back and my interest rate can go sky high??? Oh sure, let me sign here.</p>
<p>THANK YOU SUE!!! So many people complaining about the banks, the economy, Fanny/Freddie; and everyone else. The truth is; not ONE PERSON was forced to sign on the dotted line. Many of them were trying get rich schemes investing in houses; many were trying to live beyond their means and keeping up with the Jones’; many felt that they were ENTITLED. ALL of these people are the ones at fault. Those who had financial hardship come on them, and had responsible debt, I feel for and think they should be helped. For the irresponsible person; no way. And anyone who expects to have a certain level of debt coming out of college, whereby that debt will negatively affect their lives; or worse yet, their parents; for years to come; are financially irresponsible.</p>
<p>afadad: for the AVERAGE student, the strong Wharton alumni network will do exponentially more than the weaker Arizona State’s alumni network. The smaller class size will help enormously. For a TOP student, it doesn’t matter where they go, they’ll be top students no matter where they’ll go, but for the AVERAGE student, they’re better off going to the better school where students are much more serious about their studies and their careers and whatever else. An average student can and usually will give into social influences. If the social influence is to party all night, get stoned and ****face drunk every night, they’ll PROBABLY do that. If the social influence is to do well in classes, they’ll likely work harder.</p>
<p>You can’t just take the experiences of your child and extrapolate for all high school students. Some high school students need private school. Some don’t. It has to be decided on a case by case basis. For example, I’m an average student with slightly above average intelligence with a lot of ambition. If I didn’t go to private school in high school (public schools suck in my area) I wouldn’t be at NYU.</p>
<p>It’s unbelievable: I have been rallying around NOT incurring substantial debt for most schools ( if parents can’t afford it) for years. See <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/476132-should-you-incur-substantial-debt-dream-school-even-pay-dream-tuition.html?highlight=substantial+debt+dream[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/476132-should-you-incur-substantial-debt-dream-school-even-pay-dream-tuition.html?highlight=substantial+debt+dream</a></p>
<p>Check out post number 1 and number 84 in that thread.</p>
<p>However, when Suzie Orman says it, she gets nationwide play. hmm.</p>
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<p>And, if there was any doubt about her not being an idiot who often speaks without much knowledge, she just removed it. </p>
<p>The same would apply to anyone who builds a show based on utterly misleading “cases” such as: </p>
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<p>Should we run the real numbers by adding a few twists? Let say that Sibling 1 is a straight A student with great SAT/ACT, and was just accepted in the engineering program at Stanford or MIT. How much do we think the family with 4 members and an income of less than 100,000 would pay per year? How would you factor the fact that Sibling 1 probably could earn MORE than his family contribution with paid internships starting after his second year of college? How much MORE would a Stanford degree in Engineering be worth compared with a degree from a state school and how much LESS do you think the parents would pay at the same state school? And, if that was not enough, should we add the value of graduate school in a field that is prone to offer stipends and full tuition? An admission that could be made a lot easier by graduating from a more recognized school? </p>
<p>Yes, let’s see if the borrowing of a meaningful amount is still such a bad idea? Or should be stick to the asinine $320,000 figure that probably prompted many oohs and aahs from the crowd at the Oprah show … and scorns from anyone who knows a modicum about finances and colleges.</p>
<p>I suppose people can justify just about anything with the proper spin. However, regardless of how “gifted” your children are - if you can’t afford it your should not do it.</p>
<p>Just because you CAN co-sign for $xx,xxx of private or PLUS loans for your kids doesn’t mean you should. By giving them the “gift” of the “quality” of higher education that they so richly deserve you are mortgaging their future. If as a parent you cash in your retirement or remortgage your home that you have spent decades saving for and paying on - you are hurting yourself down the road. </p>
<p>taxguy - right on, keep preaching.</p>
<p>If you look at most of the posts, responses, and advice from financial advisers; you’ll see that most talk about FINAL DEBT. After all grants, scholarships, merits, etc… If you can walk out of Stanford, MIT, HYP, etc… with a debt of 80% of what your EXPECTED salary should be; then that is definitely a reasonable debt. If you can’t, then it’s financially irresponsible. But hey, it’s your money. Do what you want. Both my children will graduate college (1 from a top 10) with no debt whatsoever for themselves or me. There are plenty of schools out there; including top notch schools; where you don’t have to go into major debt. Again; it doesn’t matter if it’s harvard, yale, Duke, Tulane, all the way down to the University of Wherever. If you are going to walk out the door 4 years later with a debt that is considerably more than 80% of your starting salary, then you are asking for financial trouble. But hey; for some people; saying they went to HARVARD or wherever is actually more important than the actual education itself.</p>
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<p>how much? about $10,000/year, maybe more. that is about 10% of their gross income and probably unaffordable. but the school tells them they can “afford it” - Mom and Dad feel guilty. Hence the borrowing. After they have borrowed $40,000 for the first kid with “super grades and SAT’s” they have 3 more to educate.
They need to do themselves a favor and just say NO.</p>
<p>I think the problem is; many children and for that fact, many parents; think for some unsubstantiated reason that they OWE their children whatever college education they want. If they can accepted, then they should pay for it. Most college students who are now in their 40-50’s probably worked their way through college or went to less expensive schools. Yes, a college education is a very important. (For most kids). But a debt free college education from U of Wherever is a better education than an education with $100,000 in debt going into life. Especially a life where economics is a major concern right now.</p>
<p>^^–^^</p>
<p>Sorry, I messed up when typing. The family has four members but only two kids.</p>