Swarthmore (or less) & Pomona?

<p>I'm a junior, going to competitive IB school in Oregon (public)</p>

<p>SCHOOL STATS:
GPA - 3.99 unweighted/ 4.2 weighted (all As in AP US last year)
- I am an IB Diploma student taking IB Enlgish, Bio, Psychology
(HL) and French, Calculus, Business (SL)
- this tri i got a 4.8, first b in IB Calculus
but I'm shooting for an A this tri..
- major: Government
- taking Most rigorous courses available!</p>

<p>Awards:
-Scholar of the Month
- NHS fundraiser, NHS Prez. next year
- Honor Roll
- Duke of Spirit
- Coach's Award
- GOING TO GET LETTER OF REC. FROM MAYOR!</p>

<p>Extracirriculars:
-Track (3 years) - Varsity Letter
-Cross Country (3 years) - Captain, Varsity, Prestigous Coach's Award for Leadership and excellence on the team, 1 per year
-Mayors Youth Advisory Board (2 years) - Co-Chair, going to Washington DC for a National Conference on it
-Uganda Club (3 years) - Organized fast for malaria, Prez next year
- Diversity Club - went to Diversity Summit, VP next year
- Freshman Treasurer
- Varsity Ultimate Frisbee - starting defender
- FCA - Prez this year and next year. Organize every week by myself</p>

<p>Running - 17:32 PR. I could run for Pomona, Whitman, Swarthmore?</p>

<p>Volunteer Work:
- 190 Hours at Beaverton Library helping Children
- 40 Hours working at Senior Center
- IB Executive Committee, organized/made advertising
campaign for IB Iron Chef fundraiser
- Studetn Staff Action Council</p>

<p>Hobbies: Photography, Cooking</p>

<p>Hook: Planning an event w/ a local running company owner to give 100 pairs of shoes to lower income children in Portland who cannot afford shoes. By end of Senior year i want to give 250 pairs of shoes through donations of corporations etc</p>

<p>ACT: 30
SAT II: took US History 660 :/
APUSH Test: 4</p>

<ul>
<li>Have gotten 4 offers to write letters of rec. should be excellent.
Essays will be solid... I'm starting in the summer :)</li>
</ul>

<p>Colleges: My opinion
- Pomona (ED) - slight reach
- Claremont Mckenna - match/high match
- Swarthmore College - reach
- Bowdoin College - high match
- Whitman College - low match
- UO Honors College - safety</p>

<p>I'm no expert but scanning through your credentials nothing really popped out at me until your Hook. On a personal level that sounds really interesting and quite philanthropic.</p>

<p>2 questions:
Whats FCA?
And whats Mayors Youth Advisory Board? Is it like your towns youth commission...If so thats cool I'm on our towns and it is a pretty big deal (+lots of fun :-P).</p>

<p>All I can really say is GL, seems like your on top of things which is a big plus for you. :D</p>

<p>On your college choices, my Ds experience was that Pomona was at least as selective as Swarthmore, and coming from the west coast does not help geographic diversity as it does for Swarthmore. But they are both great schools. Each of the LACs on your list are fine schools, but they have different characters. You'll find as you investigate further, for example, that Claremont McKenna is quite different than Pomona, and each school attracts a somewhat different applicant and student body.</p>

<p>Giantredlobster:</p>

<p>I'm glad you think that Share the Sole is a good idea! Most of my EC's are standard, but I would argue that they are valuable, such as the Uganda club, which has raised over $12,000 for my school's Sister School in Uganda and has also raised awareness about AIDS.</p>

<p>FCA is Fellowship of Christian Athletes, I organize lessons and events on Fridays and it's something that I enjoy and good fellowship in general</p>

<p>Mayor's Youth Advisory Board is a committee of 20 teens and we plan events and efforts, i.e I'm writing a measure that will be up in the next general election so that the state voting age for LOCAL elections will be lowered to 17. Also i'm spearheading an effort to get a grant so our high schools can get environmental recycling cans outdoors (costs about $7,000). Each year around 300 apply, so it's pretty awesome..</p>

<p>I hope i have a good chance at Swarthmore/Pomona!</p>

<p>Dadx3: You are right in that Geographic Diversity won't help as much for Pomona, but I'm from the NW which doesn't have even as many admitted Students as the NE. I know that each of the schools are different, but there is something i love about each of them, I just hope I can get accepted to attend one of these amazing colleges!</p>

<p>How different is Swarthmore from Pomona/Claremont Mckenna?</p>

<p>I think you will be competitive for any of your schools. Just keep doing what you are doing, and try to get reasonably high scores on SATs/ACT...</p>

<p>Sounds like you'll be a really good candidate to me! You seem really involved in what you love. :] And don't stress out too much about the B in Calc - you're a Poli Sci major with strong grades otherwise. Shoot for an A, of course, but don't worry too much about it.</p>

<p>I think that as long as you score within Swarthmore's median range on your SATs/ACT you should be okay in that department. Admissions is really all about luck nowadays, and ED would of course help a lot at Swat but do what you feel you need to do! You definitely have a shot. :]</p>

<p>not sure about pomona but swarthmore is a crap shoot for every applicant.</p>

<p>skyhawk,
My S and I visited Swarthmore, Pomona and Claremont McKenna last spring. In many ways Swarthmore and Pomona are quite similar as top notch Liberal Arts Colleges, although there are the obvious differences: Philadelphia versus Claremont/Los Angeles, the Claremont College system, etc. </p>

<p>Claremont McKenna was more different. The CMC is quite up front about the founding principles of the college and areas of emphasis. The focus is on leadership with an emphasis on politics/policy, business and international affairs / international relations. We had lunch with a faculty member who had graduated from Swarthmore, and she said that one difference in the student body at CMC was that no one at CMC was really thinking about going on to grad school (PhD), whereas at Swarthmore (and Pomona I think) that is a fairly common career goal. At CMC students would be more focused on going on for an MBA, law degree, etc. if they are thinking of grad school. I think these characteristics are born out by the statistics on PhD productivity: Swarthmore and Pomona are near the top in per-capita production of future PhDs, whereas CMC is much more middle of the pack.</p>

<p>So I think CMC is a fabulous choice if you are thinking about a field of study and possible career choice that is compatible with the thrust and atmosphere of the college. Less so if you are thinking about going on for a PhD to do research or teach.</p>

<p>Also, CMC's students concentrate in just a handful of majors. It's really a specialty college focused on Econ, Poli Sci, History, etc. in the same way that Harvey Mudd is a specialty tech school.</p>

<p>This means that those specialty departments are very large, more like the size of university departments. However, it also means there are no CMC science departments.</p>

<p>Pomona is the Claremont College that is similar to Swarthmore. Honestly, the major difference between those two is all the layers of difference that you get between suburban Los Angeles and suburban old-money northeast/mid-atlantic (weather, architecture, transportation, cultural style, and so on and so forth).</p>

<p>This may be an incorrect bias... but Pomona seems strongest in Humanities and Swarthmore seems like it would be better in math and science. But that could just be my west coast perception?</p>

<p>Right now I'm leaning heavily towards Pomona, and hopefully being and Athlete and ED will help me out!</p>

<p>If you are an athlete who would help a college team it should definitely be a help to your application. I'm not sure that I would say that Pomona is stronger in humanities and Swarthmore stronger in math and sciences. Swarthmore may be particularly good at the social sciences, but the differences in academic quality on a discipline by discipline basis are probably too hard to distinguish. What is more different between the colleges is their setting (as interesteddad pointed out) and a somewhat different personality or vibe on campus. Good luck!</p>

<p>
[quote]
This means that those specialty departments are very large, more like the size of university departments. However, it also means there are no CMC science departments.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I'm not quite sure what you are getting at here. . . The class sizes are still the same size in the gov and econ departments as in all the other departments. It's not like your intro to government class is going to be the same size as at some huge state university. And even as a whole, the popular departments are still smaller than at a university (Claremont McKenna is only 1100 students total-- no matter your major you get the attention of a liberal arts education) </p>

<p>What's different about government and econ is that the school spends more money in these departments and attracts higher profile professors. You still have small, personal classes, go to lunch with your professor, and get all the other nice little perks of a liberal arts education-- it's just that the professor of yours happens to be a former assistant attorney general and is friends with members of the supreme court. I personally don't see this as a downside to the school. . .</p>

<p>I know I've called you out on this before, but CMC has the joint science department (a detail that might be worth mentioning when you say that it has "no science departments"). It shares its resources with Scripps and Pitzer to make the best science department possible. This is what the consortium is about. I have heard plenty of good things about the joint science department and I know that CMC students do exceptionally well in admission to med school.</p>

<p>There isn't a single major that is open to a Pomona student that is not open to a CMC student. If you want to major in something like art or Latin (programs that CMC does not have), you would take your classes at Pomona! </p>

<p>Pomona is a great school and you should make your decision based on where you think you would be happier, but you shouldn't let people discourage you from looking at Claremont McKenna (especially if you're thinking about majoring in government).</p>

<p>theboneyking, I think you're being a little overly defensive. As far as I can tell interesteddad was being very complementary about CMC. He was talking about the large departments in the sense that that in those fields there are lots of talented professors and lots of courses offered, not that they are filled with too many students. A problem with liberal arts colleges is that they often can't afford to provide a large variety of courses in any given subject, so having departments as large as in a university is a good thing.</p>

<p>Maybe he could have been more clear about the opportunity to take science classes at other colleges, but that's a fairly basic part of all of the Claremont colleges than anyone interested in them probably knows about. The fact is that CMC doesn't have its own science deparments, which suggests that in general science is not strongly emphasized. That doesn't mean that you can't learn about science there, but I think it's fair to say that CMC is probably the wrong place for most kids who are only interested in science. </p>

<p>CMC has advantages and also disadvantages, just like any other school. Educating applicants about the differences between colleges, positive and negative, isn't exactly discouraging them from applying.</p>

<p>Sorry if this turned into a Claremont Forum!</p>

<p>The one strength I feel that Swartmore/Pomona has over Claremont Mckenna is that there is more diversity. By this i mean that, at Pomona i could meet someone who wants to stop global warming, or retrace Shakespere's roots, get a PhD in Astrophysics etc. At Claremont I feel that I would meet JD/MBA/Public Policy people which is what I want to do and I love leadership (my extended essay topic :) ) but i also want to meet a wide variety of people. My uncle went to CMC during the late 80's and echoed this concern. Is it legitimate?</p>

<p>Relating back to Swarthmore: I love the laidback atmosphere of Pomona. Is Swarthmore cutthroat? How are athletics (school spirit wise)? Describe the typical Swarthmore student.</p>

<p>
[quote]
As far as I can tell interesteddad was being very complementary about CMC.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Actually, I wasn't trying to be complimentary, nor un-complimentary. Simply descriptive.</p>

<p>I think that is someone looks at the number of professors, number of courses, and number of majors in CMC's specialty departments, those departments will look a lot more like university departments than LAC departments. The tradeoff is that other LAC departments (like Biology, Chemistry, Physics, arts, languages, etc.) will either be non-existant or multi-purpose "joint science" endeavors shared with other colleges, i.e. if you want to major in Physics, CMC is probably not the right place.</p>

<p>None of this is inherently good or bad. It just "is". An applicant needs to weigh the benefits of a specialty school versus an all-purpose school for Claremont-McKenna, just as you would weigh them for CalTech.</p>

<p>Swarthmore is anything but cutthroat. There is a lot of cooperative work bewteen students, and between students and professors. But it is quite academically intense. The students expect to work hard at their academic work, and the professors expect them to work hard. That is not to say there is no time for fun at Swarthmore. But my impression from talking to my D who is a senior at Swarthmore (and I'm an alum) and visiting and talking to students at Pomona is that Pomona is somewhat more "laid back" than Swarthmore. Both are fine schools, however. If you have a choice, you should visit both and see which is a better fit for you.</p>

<p>On athletics and school spirit, the most obvious difference is that Swarthmore does not have a football team. A high percentage of the student body does participate in sports, but I don't imagine there are large crowds of fans for sporting events. I remember hearing that someone dug out some cheerleader uniforms as a gag one year, but I don't think there have been real cheerleaders for years and years. I don't know what the athletic/school spirit situation is like at Pomona.</p>

<p>
[quote]
This may be an incorrect bias... but Pomona seems strongest in Humanities and Swarthmore seems like it would be better in math and science. But that could just be my west coast perception?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I'm not familiar enough with Pomona to compare. However, I would say that Swarthmore is strong across the board. I really can't think of a bad department. Arts and music are small, but OK. Dance and Theater is good. Languages are solid for a school that size. Philosophy and linguistics are excellent. History and English, like most places these days, depend on the professor. If you want a gender this or gender that Prof, you can find one in those departments....or not. One of Swarthmore's most popular professors is an Africa specialist in the History Department, although he teaches all kinds of stuff including his "History of the Future" seminar, which looks at how "the future" has been viewed over the course of history. Swarthmore is strong in the sciences, math, and engineering. However, I would say that Swarthmore's signature specialty is the social sciences, especially Economics and Political Science. Swarthmore produces more Social Science, more Economics, and more Poli Sci PhDs per graduate than any other college or university in the country and is up there in Sociology and Psychology. More than that, a lot of Swarthmore students have historically pursued careers in public policy. Today that translates to a lot of students interested in global cultures -- Asia, Latin America, Africa. </p>

<p>For example, Swarthmore students took a leading role in organizing Dharfur Genocide campaigns. One of MTV's three Dharfur correspondents is a Swarthmore student from Rwanda. A large number of Swarthmore students have been to DC for rallies and lobbying their homestate congressmen (my daughter was assigned John Kerry's office when she went). Similarly, there's considerable political involvement, heightened by the fact that Swarthmore's congressional district is a key swing district in Pennsylvania and national elections. It's a great school if you are really into politics and public policy. Perhaps a bit "too much" if you hate politics and "issues".</p>

<p>
[quote]
Relating back to Swarthmore: I love the laidback atmosphere of Pomona. Is Swarthmore cutthroat? How are athletics (school spirit wise)? Describe the typical Swarthmore student.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Swarthmore isn't cutthroat at all. It's taboo to compare grades. In it's own way, it's laid back (you can wear pajamas to class and nobody would care -- they'd look at you like a freak if you did your hair, makeup, and broke out the Coach purse for class). However, this gets into that whole west coast/east coast thing. No East Coast school will be Southern California "laid back, dude". People from Boston, New York, Philadelphia, and DC simply aren't like that. It's a cultural difference.</p>

<p>Athletics are OK. A slightly higher percentage of Swatties play varsity sports than at Pomona, but it's close. Some teams win, some lose. There's no football, so all of the athletic slots go to all of the other sports. I wouldn't say it's a big rah-rah campus. The athletes are Swatties, just like the dancers, the musicians, or whatever. There isn't a big divide between jocks and non-jocks.</p>

<p>Impossible to say what the typical Swattie is like, other than the fact that they are all smart and a higher than average percentage really enjoy their courses and the ideas they wrestle with. I check out the reading list or syllabus for each of my daughter's classes. I'm usually blown away. I really like the open-ended nature of the assignments. Professors aren't looking for students to just spout answers, but to really think. For example, the take home exam in the Intro to American Politics class had one question, "What good is judicial review...really?" Now, it would be impossible to write a coherent answer to that question without understanding the roles of the executive branch, the Congress, and the Courts in the American political system and without being able to come up with an historical issue that involved all three....but, a student could take that question in any direction and would be forced to actually think about the role of the Courts. That's kind of Swarthmore in a nutshell. It works because the students and faculty tacitly agree that students do the reading to get "the facts" ("coverage" as one professor calls it) and can, therefore, move on to the next level.</p>

<p>It's ethnically very diverse, one of the most diverse schools on the East Coast. Accepting environment. Comfortable for gay students, etc.</p>

<p>BTW, you don't give some of the key stuff (like ethnicity) in your stat list to give you hard "chances" estimates. However, based on what you provided, I'd say that you have the raw materials to write an application that could get you accepted to either Pomoma or Swarthmore ED (I think the two schools are essentially identical in degree of admissions difficulty). Learn as much as you can about the schools and then try to focus the stuff on your app in way that lets the admissions office instantly see you as a well-adjusted, successful contributor to the campus community.</p>

<p>Sorry if I overreacted there. In case, you can't tell, I'm a current student at Claremont McKenna, and I was getting some anti-CMC vibes from interesteddad and just wanted to set the record straight. I guess I got a little bit defensive. . .</p>

<p>
[quote]
At Claremont I feel that I would meet JD/MBA/Public Policy people which is what I want to do and I love leadership (my extended essay topic ) but i also want to meet a wide variety of people.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>CMC is not full of a bunch of clones-- you will meet a variety of people. That being said, most people tend to have at least a passing interest in either politics or business. Those are, after all, the school's strengths. Remember though, there are four other schools in the consortium, and there is a good deal of interaction between them.</p>

<p>One of the unique things about CMC (that you don't get at a lot of other top LACs) is its intellectual diversity. There are almost as many conservatives as liberals, which leads to some very provactive debates and discussions. Talking with intelligent, well-intentioned people with drastically different views from your own can really get you to re-evaluate your own beliefs and cause you to see the world differently. Growing intellectually is, IMHO, one of the most important parts of college. </p>

<p>Anyway, I should probably stop there since this thread wasn't meant to be about CMC . . .</p>

<p>Question about the Swarthmore College Alliance (i'm not sure of the official name) or at least it's association w/ Haverford and another College. Is this similar to Claremont Consortium?</p>

<p>Swarthmore participates in the Tri-College Consortium with Haverford and Bryn Mawr and also offers cross-registration with Penn. However, my impression of the Claremont Consortium is that the schools are closer and that there is much more interaction between them.</p>