Hi. My son is struggling to choose between W & L and Swarthmore. W & L offered $5,000 more (per year) in financial aid. He wants to major in Political Science and Russian, and seems to like both schools equally well. Thoughts?
Id probably choose along personality and fit. If he’s more centrist socially or more on the liberal or activist minded side of things.
Both great schools academically and great kids at both schools. They are just a little different culturally.
Swat does also have a reputation of being more work less play. But I’m sure w & l is equally rigorous.
I agree with privatebanker; fit and personality matter a lot here. I’m struggling to think of two more different schools. I’m surprised one doesn’t appeal to him more than the other.
Students at Swat tend to be intense and intellectual. Many are interested in academia, and the college has produced more PhDs per capita than any other college except Caltech, Harvey Mudd, and Reed. Greek life is practically nonexistent. W&L leans right-of-center and has a markedly more pre-professional feel, with many students aiming for law school or government jobs in DC. W&L has more students in Greek life than virtually any other college in the US.
W&L is considerably less diverse than Swarthmore. 80% of students at W&L are white, compared to 39% at Swarthmore. Socioeconomically, W&L has more students from the top 1% than any other college except Wash U and Colorado College. 19.1% of students come from the top 1%, and 8.4% come from the bottom 60%. Swarthmore has nearly twice as many students from the bottom 60% (18.2%) as the top 1% (9%).
In Swat’s favor, nearby Bryn Mawr is the only liberal arts college in the country that has a Flagship program in Russian. (The others are Indiana U, UCLA, UGA, Wisconsin, and Portland State.)
https://www.brynmawr.edu/russian/russian-language-flagship/about-language-flagship
If he can handle the rigorous academics at Swarthmore, there is nowhere better for an undergraduate education, IMO.
Very different environments. I cannot recommend one over the other without knowing the student and then it would be easy. If your son is struggling between these two schools, then he needs to revisit or to do more research. Should be an easy decision.
Thank you for taking the time to comment, this is helpful.
Don’t know much about Swarthmore, but W&L is excellent for political science. It has a great alumni network in DC area and in government in general. There are lots of internship opportunities in DC, which is about 2.5 hours away.
Swat offers a very intense masters thesis like experience for about the top 1/3 students at Swarthmore, where they do not take many classes in senior year and instead work on a research project in a very small group for almost the entire senior year. Its intense and not for everyone, but the results will be a masters level thesis, and a bachelors degree, and readiness for a PhD program.
Swat is near an urban area, with a train to Philadelphia. W&L is isolated and rural.
Swat only offers one cafeteria on the entire campus, so it has a high school feel to it.
Swat is “where fun comes to die” according to students. I once asked where can I get ice cream on
the Swat campus? The answer , “we don’t have time for ice cream.”
Super different environments. Has he visited either or both?
They’re polar opposites, I can’t believe he has no preference.
Have him read through the Fiske Guide descriptions.
See if there’s not a third option that would be a good compromise between these two extremes.
Seconding @warblersrule - and also seconding all posters who’ve said they’re very different environments, and it’s really unlikely that both would feel right to the same student.
(@Coloradomama, there’s always ice cream in the dining hall. If somebody actually said “we don’t have time for ice cream” to you, they were joking.)
If OP’s son is seriously considering majoring Russian, do check what the two colleges can offer in this area. W&L seems to have a very small Russian department, consisting of one Russian professor, one visiting professor, and one TA. W&L offers Russian Area Studies, an interdisciplinary program. As warblersrule pointed out, Swarthmore students can have access to Russian classes at Bryn Mawr, one of the six Russian Flagship programs in the nation and the only one in a liberal arts college. Swat itself has more faculty members in Russian than W&L. The Russian teacher at my kids’ high school highly recommends the Russian programs at Bryn Mawr and Swarthmore.
Going to say outright what some posters have just hinted at. Swat has a very vocal, very far left contingent on campus. W&L is near the opposite end of the political spectrum. Either can make people in the middle or toward the other end of the spectrum uncomfortable.
If the difference in financial aid is merit aid, this won’t help, BUT, if they both are need-based packages, if you appeal your aid at Swarthmore and show them W&L’s package, maybe they can help out more… if your child prefers Swat after reading up on and/or visiting both colleges.
He attended the admitted student event at Swat last week and loved it. He’s attending W&L’s admitted student event next week. The possibility of enrolling in Russian courses at Bryn Mawr is appealing but Swat students gave him the impression that taking classes at Bryn Mawr and Haverford is a bit of a hassle. He already has two years of college Russian so perhaps W&L’s program would be limiting. Swat has the edge it seems for Russian. From what I can surmise, both schools have excellent Political Science Departments, and W&L’s proximity to DC and the intern opportunities there are a plus. He loves the Philadelphia area, but he also enjoys the mountains and the outdoor opportunities living in the Shenandoah Valley would afford. He understands Swat leans left and W&L perhaps a little the other way. He is comfortable either way. He’s not particularly attracted to W&L’s Greek life, but nor does it bother him. He loves the idea of the extra spring semester at W&L, but he would relish the chance of taking courses at Penn (where his brother goes). Both schools appeal to him (despite being “polar opposites,” as MYOS1634 said) and from what I can see, he can’t go wrong either way. They have both made it affordable so I am thankful for that. Decision day is fast approaching so he will have to figure it out soon!
According to Google Maps, W&L is about 193 miles by road from DC, while Swarthmore is about 126 miles from DC. Philadelphia is on the Amtrak Northeast corridor line, making trips to NYC or to DC feasible. Lexington, VA, has a MegaBus connection to DC, but it takes about 5 hours.
I would assume that internships in Washington would be in the summertime.
“He understands Swat leans left and W&L perhaps a little the other way.”
W&L is more than a little the other way from my perspective. I’d say it is fairly conservative and buttoned down. And greek life permeates the social structure.
W&L has a strong politics department and a related activity called Mock Convention. Your son should read about it and ask about it on his visit. My daughter, a politics major, loves Mock Con and considers it one of the highlights of W&L.
W&L may have been ultra conservative in the past, but today I would say it leans conservative. There are definitely students all along the political spectrum.
As far as the academic intensity, W&L is a challenging academic environment, but I would not call it intense. Classes are not graded on a curve, so the students tend to be collaborative. Students have time to comfortably pursue many other interests.
Yes, most internships are in the summer. However, there is the option to spend spring term in DC and to spend the fall or winter semester in DC. I believe both of those involve internships as well.
Hopefully his visit this weekend will clarify the differences and help him feel confident about his choice. He has two great options. Good Luck!
So, no happy medium college?
If he’s already taken 2 years or college Russian, check the Spring and Fall schedule to see how many courses higher than that are offered per semester - it may be just two.
In case you and your son don’t know about it, I just want to mention this program which offers full scholarship study abroad through the US State Department. It might be a good way for him to strengthen his command of Russian regardless of which college he chooses.
About 76% of male students at W&L affiliate with fraternities, so it is not like they are easily ignored by a non interested student.