Swarthmore (tuition free) vs Dartmouth for CS or Engineering

Not all top LACs even have traditional fraternities.

Not sure this is a “definite” for all kids at these schools. Do the kids who choose Dartmouth but avoid the Greek life/party culture have the same “networking” and “social” opportunities as those who embrace these things?

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I’m usually a sucker for the more “prestigious” school and typically I think that the money difference between the affordable option and the more fancy name can most likely be made up during the course of a career. And in some cases, the tuition difference is a drop in the bucket compared to both the financial and unquantifiable advantages of attending the more prestigious university. My life experience has been that where you go to both college and grad school matters a hell of a lot.

But in this case, Swarthmore is a fantastic college … one of the best. As an Ivy Simp, I give you my blessing to choose Swarthmore. The campus is beautiful and although I have heard it is a bit inconvenient, your son could take a class or two at Penn and possibly make a few connections there as well. :blush:

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If he ends up liking Dartmouth more, you should ask the financial aid office there to match Swarthmore’s offer. I bet they would.

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In CS maybe…in Engineering it’s unlikely. It requires the class to be an elective, not offered at Swat, with a few other hurdles. The requirements of the Engineering department make electives limited, and there are so many offerings at Swat it just doesn’t really make sense to head to Philly. It’s convenient with the trains but still would take at least 3 or 4 hours to get to/from class.

I’ve had 2 graduates from the Quaker Consortium, and in their time there, I heard of 1 student taking a class at Penn. It doesn’t happen much. 99% of the cross-registration happens in the Tri-Co. For anyone looking at Swat (or Haverford or Bryn Mawr) thinking they might take a few classes at Penn… I would assume that’s unlikely and not factor that into a decision.

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There are fields where this is true, but for for tech degrees, especially if opportunity costs are factored in for the differential, this almost never is the case. Engineering and CS are pretty egalitarian out of the gate and almost exclusively meritocratic after that. Engineers and computer scientists that are world class in their specialties, hail from all sorts of undergraduate programs.

According to College Scorecard, the average earnings of ME grads at 2 years are effectively all the same for grads of San Jose State, Wayne State, Cal Poly, and MIT.

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Then you’d pick Swarthmore

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If both schools only award aid based on need, how is there a $40K difference? The OP says Dartmouth is closest to home, so it seems unlikely this is a child of a Swarthmore faculty/staff member.

The colleges can have different definitions of “need” for the OP’s family financial situation.

Swarthmore does have a very limited number of full tuition merit scholarships (McCabe Scholars), there are about 21 of these. Don’t know if this is the case of the OP.

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Sure, but 40K?

Why wouldn’t a $40k difference be possible with different colleges’ different definition of “need” when calculating need-based financial aid?

Home equity, small business, farm, rental real estate, etc. can be places where different colleges can be very different in how they are considered for financial aid purposes.

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On campus interviews are open to all students, so technically yes. Networking does not hurt anyone, it is always a good thing and can be done while playing beer pong or hiking up the white mountain.
The most important question for OP is whether his son wants to have a technical career related to his major or not? In which case, UIUC is probably a much better school than both Dartmouth and Swarthmore put together. If not then cost can be ONE of the deciding factors.

:+1: The interpretations could be materially different.

Swat’s per student endowment is ~50% higher than Dartmouth’s…so who knows.

Acknowledged. I just never saw anywhere near a $40K variance in packages and/or NPCs when going through this for two kids. I think $20K was the biggest difference we saw . And these were also T25/FAFSA+CSS schools with sizable endowments. Dartmouth, Williams, Amherst and Bowdoin were among them, but not Swarthmore.

It is possible with merit, but also if loans are included in the aid.

That was a big difference for us in those top schools. If our EFC was $30,000 and the total COA was $80,000. Some provided $50,000 in aid with no loans and others provided $50,000 in aid including student and parent plus loans. So if we needed some loans to cover the EFC part, it was a big hurdle to consider if loans were also in the aid package. So two top schools stating they meet 100% of need could look vastly different for a family as far as loans go.

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My immediate instinct is that there is no option better than Swarthmore for free.

To address the “party culture” debate, I am sure Swatties are having parties. There is no hiding the condom boxes on display in the dorms. Is he looking for a more liberal and intellectual vibe? If so, Swat sounds like a better fit.

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In-laws are Profs at Dartmouth, and have visited multiple times. Love the school , and concerns about it being a party school are overblown. Great school.
Swarthmore recruited S1 and offered him a spot. He liked it, but ultimately chose differently- he was lucky and had some great choices. He did find the Left leaning, strident and vocal minority at the school off putting. Again, excellent school.
To me, it’s a no brainer that you take the Swarthmore offer, unless you are quite wealthy and have no money worries.
Having said all that, neither Swat or Dartmouth are known for their ENG, or even CS courses. UIUC/Purdue, or McGill are more established when it comes to those disciplines. I understand that you want a smaller school experience, but I can’t help but feel that you are fishing in the wrong pond.

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:100:

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UIUC and Purdue would both be difficult to change major between CS and an engineering major. If a student were firmly decided on CS or an engineering major and was directly admitted to that major at UIUC, then UIUC would be a fine choice. Similarly if a student were firmly decided on CS and was directly admitted to CS at Purdue, or wanted some non-CS engineering major at Purdue and was admitted to the engineering division there, then Purdue would be a fine choice.

But a student undecided between CS and an engineering major would find fairly high barriers to changing between them at UIUC or Purdue.

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I was just going to edit my post to reflect that. :+1: Plus, in defense of the OP, none of the three are small schools.