<p>specifically: social scene, student body, what people do for fun, how big drugs/alcohol are, any sort of dating/hookups/whatever scene - things like that. I know this is weird to post on the Swarthmore board, but I'm thinking of applying ED II to Carleton because it seems like a better fit for my general temperament but the allure of Swarthmore's location has been holding me back. I've also heard though that most Swatties don't really leave campus anyway. Any thoughts? </p>
<p>BTW, I'm sort of a type "B+" kind of person. I work hard when I really have to and when I actually like the subject and I tend to be a little bit perfectionistic with my writing and art, but otherwise I'm pretty laid-back. I do like to drink and smoke occasionally, but not all the time; I like the sort of gatherings with movies or board games or just good old goofing around the best. I like having intellectual discussions and being in an intellectual environment but I see intense academic competition among peers as immature and would prefer not to be in an environment like that (I guess I "compete with myself" rather than with other students) and I don't talk about intellectual things ALL THE TIME. I just want to be where people generally aren't stuckup, anti-social or pretentious and won't look down on me for being silly sometimes or liking mainstream music. I really wish I could visit Swarthmore, but I went to Europe last summer so our "fun" money is a bit tight right now. </p>
<p>Based on your self description I'm guessing think Carleton is closer to a fit for your personality. Also, don't know if Wesleyan was on your list but if so you might want to take another close look if you're thinking intellectual, zany, non cutthroat, movies, etc.</p>
<p>Your description sounds like a Swattie to me. Specifically, I think Swatties tend to study hard in courses that they enjoy. But, there is certainly plenty of goofing off and plenty of hanging out without heavy intellectual conversation.</p>
<p>What have you heard about Swarthmore that sounds different than that?</p>
<p>i honestly don't know much about carleton, but i think swat is a pretty good fit for you. </p>
<p>i like to party at times and swat has enough going on that you can find a party going on around 2-3 times a week (thursday is pub night. friday & saturday there are usually parties being hosted by the frats or at paces). it's not hard at all to go to philly when you need to get out of the swat bubble. there's a train station basically on campus and a round trip costs you $7.50. i like to go to philly about once a month with my friends.</p>
<p>each dorm has a lounge tv so you can just watch a movie or a show with your friends when you need to take a break from all the academic stress. i know that my dorm specifically (don't know about the others) has board games in the lounge like scrabble available to students for use at any time.</p>
<p>the atmosphere can be stressful at times (mostly around tests or finals week), but otherwise i'd describe it as relatively relaxed. yeah... people at swat study A LOT but we know how to have fun too. halls and dorms often host weekly study breaks so that you can take a breather from all the homework and studying for an hour or two. people have intellectual conversations/debates usually during meals at sharples or late at night with friends, but it is not a constant thing. obviously a lot of this depends who you become friends with.</p>
<p>i could go on but i think i will stop. good luck with your applications!</p>
<p>Hey! I was in your predicament 2 years ago! I decided to apply early to Swat and had my ED II app for Carleton waiting incase I didn't get in. Alas, I ended up at Swat. </p>
<p>In my opinion, I'd go for Carleton if I were you. Swarthmore is intense. Period. Misery poker abounds. Its not that life at Swat revolves around school work, but it seems to come up even in casual conversation on a fairly regular basis and this sort of bothered me. Also, Swarthmore is a really closed community. Yes, it is close to a city which is handy for an occasional jaunt or a concert, but when you are at school, you are basically only AT SCHOOL. Personally, I really like to get involved in a town and have friends outside of school, so that didn't work so well for me.</p>
<p>The reason I made the choice I did at the time was:
Swat - near city, close(r) to family, really good vibe in classroom and on visit, smaller size, and the higher prestige factor (yes I will admit it)
Carleton - TERRIBLE winters (Im from CA), and I had a bad classroom experience (classes with really bored students, really not challenging classes) </p>
<p>They are both excellent schools. You WILL NOT miss out on a great education at either of them. </p>
<p>However, I might be biased since I left Swat...</p>
<p>Swat sounds right for you. People are not very competitive with each other, and while there is a lot of misery poker, I don't find it to be all too serious. Swarthmore is closed for some people, but there is a fairly significant number of students who go to Chester and Philly all the time. Honestly, I think that, no matter where you are, most of your friends are going to be college students.</p>
<p>I know a lot of people who are the "B+" students, as you describe them. They compose a fairly significant part of the student population, if not the majority. I only know a handful of students who hide in their rooms to do work.</p>
<p>Your description of what you want sounds a lot like Swarthmore to me.</p>
<p>And while I respect Banana's comments, I don't think (s)he would be the best authority on Swarthmore, since the school didn't work for him/her.</p>
<p>Yes, I agree that I am not the best authority on the subject. But I am another (different) opinion. </p>
<p>Also, I go to another school and about 75% of my friends are not enrolled in college. It is possible. And I like it. However, I am probably an outlier. I really hated eating, living, and going to school with the same people everyday. It made me feel stifled. I also don't get along so well with my peers. I feel more comfortable and have more fun with older people (one of my best friends is in his 50s). I really like my current set up where I live in an apartment, goo to work, go to school, and go to the gym all with different people. HOWEVER this is probably the same at Carleton. </p>
<p>Oh, and I also want to add that I DID NOT transfer to Carleton so I have no idea if Carleton is any different. I am only saying what i experienced at Swat.</p>
<p>
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I really like my current set up where I live in an apartment, goo to work, go to school, and go to the gym all with different people. HOWEVER this is probably the same at Carleton.
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</p>
<p>Yeah. That's really not going to be the situation at any residential liberal arts college that I can think of. Maybe in a large university college town. Even there, the whole town is going to revolve around the university so it's still a bubble.</p>
<p>uh, well, I've just heard that Swarthmore is more intense and stuck-up, and I've heard pretty much nothing about Carleton being like that. That's what has made me unsure about Swat in comparison.</p>
<p>Boy, so like 1/2 of you tell me one and the other 1/2 tell me the other! I was just wondering if you all had anything more to say about either. After deliberating I'm pretty sure I'm doing ED II to Carleton, so I'll update later. Thank you all very much for your input! I come back to the thread and all of a sudden there's 10 replies and it was a pleasant surprise :-D</p>
<p>Edit: No Macalester for me. I looked into it for a while and it seemed like too much of what I'm already experiencing right now living where I live and being around the kind of kids I'm around, and though it was in a better location than Carleton the latter seemed like a better fit for my personality. </p>
<p>And Rhodes - Memphis actually does sound interesting to me, but I'm not too thrilled with the whole frat/sorority thing. And I've heard it's preppy there. </p>
<p>Sorry that I didn't specify more - I'm not looking for more schools to apply to (it already took me FOREVER to narrow it down to 10 :-D), I just want your opinions on Swat/Carleton.</p>
<p>
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uh, well, I've just heard that Swarthmore is more intense and stuck-up
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<p>Swarthmore is academically challenging, but "stuck up" is the last description on the face of the earth I would expect anyone to say about Swarthmore. The culture of the place is 180 degrees from "stuck up". I would say that the culture is aggressively anti-stuck up.</p>
<p>I can't really help you on the Carelton comparison. I know it's a good school, but I just don't have much feel for the place. Generally speaking, I would expect any midwestern school to seem a little more "laid back" than any school in the northeast. There are just cultural differences in the two regions...mostly superficial....but noticeable to someone unfamiliar with folk from the two regions.</p>
<p>Swarthmore was obviously not the right school for Banana. Stuff happens. He/she was from California, I believe...and ended up applying for a transfer back to schools in California, Oregon, and Washington state. What he/she outlined is really not available at any residential liberal arts college.</p>
<p>For what it's worth, I liked both Swat and Carl very much after visiting, and honestly, probably had a better time at Carleton. There was definitely that chill vibe, and people were friendly--very, very, friendly. I agree that there is a different midwestern-y feel--sort of more, I don't know, I want to say less sophisticated, but that sounds demeaning, and it's not. Just less gloss I guess, and people were more open. </p>
<p>Anyway, after I'd gone home and thought about it for a while, I realized that I probably wouldn't be very happy living in a remote, primarily white area for four years. This isn't to demean Carleton in any way; it's just that I've grown up in a major international city and small-town life in Minnesota seemed like it would be too much to adjust to in addition to dealing with the first-time-away-from-home deal. And even though Swat is apparently pretty insular, at least the <em>option</em> of having a night on the town or spending the weekend in another city is there, yknow? </p>
<p>Anyway, I'll be heading to Swat next fall. Hopefully it'll be the right place for me, but maybe Carleton will be for you :). Luck!</p>
<p>You should just go to Carleton already. Anyone that says that they only get motivated in classes when they have to or when they like a subject doesn't really belong here. In addition, the second paragraph of your original post seems to indicate preconcieved notions about Swarthmore have already been ingrained, so what do you want us to say? Despite published warnings, I thought this place would be a breeze, but I have discovered that it is not. I don't understand your meaning of the word "stuck up," but if that means that we know where Swat ranks in the collegiate heirarchy, then it is true. We may not be obvious about it, but when discussing other LAC's, most of the kids here are pretty dismissive (though not outwardly) of other schools with the possible exception of W,A and Pomona.</p>
<p>I haven't seen many drugs on campus but alchohol is plentiful, if that's important to you. Noone will look down on you for being silly, but do it too often and you'll be lonely at Swat and anywhere else for that matter. Besides, getting into Swarthmore and getting into Carleton are two very different things, you may be surprised to find out that the choice may not be yours to make. This place isn't for weak sisters.</p>
<p>"We may not be obvious about it, but when discussing other LAC's, most of the kids here are pretty dismissive (though not outwardly) of other schools with the possible exception of W,A and Pomona."</p>
<p>Wow. Not the best argument for the social/academic atmosphere at Swat, or the analytical skills of some students. Even after getting in, people still judge others by their US News rankings? Yikes.</p>
<p>whoa, DuhVinci, I'm sorry I offended you or provoked that harsh response for whatever reason. </p>
<p>and of course I had preconceived notions, that's why asked for other opinions. It's only human. </p>
<p>and I don't plan on being silly all the time, and I DO certainly plan on working much harder in college than in HS. </p>
<p>wherever I end up that's where I end up, I have no idea how things will turn out at this point, but I just hadn't gotten a lot of perspective from the point of view of someone who goes to those 2 places/went there/visited.</p>
<p>Don't let Duhvinci get under your skin. He/she offends just about every prospective student in a way that is quite atypical of Swatties except the dozen or so who hang out on the Daily Jolt.</p>
<p>The comment about "being dismissive" is so far wide of the mark that it's hard to even comment. Everything I have read and heard from Swatties in helping students choose a school is just the opposite -- basically that there are many great schools and that someone should choose Swarthmore if it is right for them. I know that in hosting "specs" at Swarthmore, my daughter has recommended many other schools to students and she got the same kinds of "go what's right for you" advice when she visited Swarthmore three times as a "spec". The most frequent advice from Swatties is to visit campus for an overnight and decide for yourself.</p>
<p>Obviously any student who has gone through the application process and enrolled at Swarthmore has some basic understanding of the selectivity pecking order. All Swatties are aware of Swarthmore's academic reputation, both in the reality of challenging classes and how Swarthmore is viewed in the academic world (grad schools, selective study abroad programs, etc.). It's kind of hard to avoid -- the rigor of the academic program is part of the fabric of the place. But, the implication that this translates into judging schools by USNEWS ranking is just plain wrong. Look at it this way. Students whose world revolves around USNEWS rankings probably wouldn't go to Swarthmore in the first place. Most Swatties either had, or could have had, options with better name-brand recognition. I think this is true, not only of Swarthmore students, but of students at the top liberal arts colleges in general. Choosing to attend a top liberal arts college is an explicit decision in favor of undergrad academic excellence over name-recognition with Joe Public. That is reflected in the culture of the student bodies at these schools.</p>
<p>There is one exception: good-natured jeering at athletic contests with cross-town rival Haverford where Haverford fans have been known to chant "Swat Sux" and Swattie fans have been known to chant "Safety School" in response. Even this should be viewed as "trash talking" not true sentiment. I doubt you could find a dozen Swatties who wouldn't recommend Haverford as a good school to prospective students.</p>
<p>Seriously, make whatever decision you want, absolutely no tot base it on Duhvinci. Carleton is a great school, and my decision between the two came down to location and to the individual subjects with stronger departments at each school. I picked Swarthmore, I have a good friend going to Carleton next year. I don't know where you'll be happier, but what I can say is that out of all the current and Swarthmore students I met on my visits, and the accepted ones who I've talked to online, Duhvinci is the only one who has struck me as both obnoxious and arrogant. Most seem like modest, friendly, and interesting.</p>
<p>I am the mother of a senior at Swat and I have to agree with interesteddad. I have never heard my son utter a negative or dismissive word about any other LAC. In fact, my son is involved in an extracurricular activity at Swat which also involves students from Bryn Mawr and Haverford. I have hosted students from all 3 schools in my home and they "work and play well together." My impression is that Swat is a laid-back campus, and that any academic pressure is "self-imposed." Kids do not discuss grades or their SAT scores. Agree with interesteddad that many of the kids who go to Swat have other "big name" options and are choosing Swarthmore for it's reputation of providing a superb undergraduate education. My son was told by the head of college counseling at his high school that he would not get a finer undergraduate education ANYWHERE in the country. After 3 1/2 years, my S would not disagree. Still, Swarthmore is not for everyone. He made several visits there to try to decide if it was the place for him.</p>