<p>BTW, here's a link to the Swat FAQ at the Swarthmore Live Journal community:</p>
<p>Click the links for discussions about various aspects of Swat by Swarthmore students and alum. It will give you a good sense of Swatties, I think.</p>
<p>Aww man, didn't I say not outwardly? Let me clarify what that means in my parlance. That means not in polite company. when we're hanging out and the topic comes up (which is definately not often), we beat on a lot of the others. US News never comes up and I wasn't even thinking of that rag when I posted last. Even if there were no US News, there is still a collegiate pecking order and we know it. A lot of my peers had other choices, I could have gone to MIT but chose not to spend four years in a slum with a bunch of pretentious know it alls. I chose Swat because I felt at home the minute I arrived. So how anyone could even conceive of applying ED to a place they have never seen and only heard such horrible stories of, is beyond me. If that is the case, Carleton is clearly the safer choice. Being in a situation where you can't afford to visit a place where you will spend four years of your life that you can never get back because you went hiking in europe only illustrates a lack of fiscal grey matter to be here in the first place. </p>
<p>Look, the original posting has all the characteristics of someone that will not make it here especially the work aspects of it. I will admit, I came in thinking the volume of work must be exaggerated and figured I would breeze through like I always had and throughout this break I have prayed at the alter of Pass/fail daily.</p>
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I will admit, I came in thinking the volume of work must be exaggerated and figured I would breeze through like I always had....
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<p>I would respectfully suggest that anyone thinking he would "breeze through" Swarthmore is not in a position to comment on the "grey matter" of other prospective students.</p>
<p>interesteddad and momof3: Thanks for your assurance about the nature of Swat kids. Still, if I get in, I hope I don't get a roommate with duhvinci's attitude about the 'collegiate pecking order.'</p>
<p>I actually have heard very similar things as Duhvinci. I almost applied early for Swarthmore, but was stopped by a friend who lived in Bryn Mawr. She told me quite frankly that everyone she knew who went to Swarthmore was cutthroat competitive.
Swarthmore is an excellent school, there's no doubt about it. It's just that it seems like it can be too rigorous at times. I've spoken to several alums and students who told me that they felt overwhelmed and stressed. I've also heard that although it is "not cool" to talk about grades, in accordance with nearby Haverford and Bryn Mawr's honor code, everyone is still "secretly" trying to beat everyone else and rank higher. I was personally dissapointed by this, and sort of concerned.
piendre?, I think I have a similar work ethic as you do. I'm guessing you like to learn and have strong interests. Thus, I would recommend Carleton based on your social and academic interests. It might not have the same name recognition, but it's still an excellent school.</p>
<p>"it seems like it can be too rigorous at times. I've spoken to several alums and students who told me that they felt overwhelmed and stressed. "</p>
<p>I am sure it's true for some people. And everyone probably feels overwhelmed and/or stressed at some point at Swarthmore - it is a tough school. But this has nothing to do with being "cutthroat competitive". From what I know, the students do not compete with each other; on the contrary, there is a lot of cooperation, study groups and peer help officially and unofficially available. Moreover, professors are extremely accommodating and often very lenient with regards to deadlines and late work (though not w.r.t. quality of it...)</p>
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I've also heard that although it is "not cool" to talk about grades, in accordance with nearby Haverford and Bryn Mawr's honor code, everyone is still "secretly" trying to beat everyone else and rank higher. I was personally dissapointed by this, and sort of concerned.
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<p>This sentence doesn't make a bit of sense. My impression, from my daughter and from others, is that Swatties not only don't care about Bryn Mawr's and Haverford's honor code, but often chose to not not consider those schools specifically because of the heavy sales job on the honor code.</p>
<p>I have never heard a single Swarthmore student suggest that the environment is "cutthroat or competitive". Just the opposite. I know that my daughter and her friends take courses together, often picking a course to take together or choosing one that other friends have enjoyed. Not only do they not compete with each other, they study together, kick around ideas for papers, etc. I sat here a year ago in June when a professor posted a syllabus on his blog for a course my daughter and several of her friends were taking in the fall. I watched three of them Instant Message back and forth about the major paper topic and what they might write about.</p>
<p>As for discussing grades, my daughter doesn't even know what kind of grades her own roommate gets. It is simply not discussed. My daughter teases her friends at other schools that they shouldn't be so obssessed with grades. In an odd way, Swarthmore is quite liberating in that way.</p>
<p>It seems like Swarthmore is a distinctive enough atmosphere that everyone reacts strongly to it, either loving or hating. Certainly, the people who hate it are very vocal. However, I know four alums fairly well (who I met completely outside of the admissions process) none of whom has any reason to be dishonest with me. They may or may not be a representative sample. One feels that while she got a great education, the atmosphere was just too stressful and not right for her. The other three love everything about Swarthmore, and think that it's the best decision they ever made. Those three don't describe any competition. I don't think the fact that some students are perhaps overly concerned with earning very good grades is equivalent to competition, when it is done in a way that does not involve other students. I'd call that dedication or motivation, which can be stifling when in excess but is very different from a "cutthroat" environment.</p>
<p>Current senior here. </p>
<p>Because Swarthmore attracts bright, hard-working students, you're also going to get people who come in prepared to be competitive. It's only natural, especially after most people's high school experiences. But the environment at Swat DOES NOT encourage competitiveness at all. For example, in my honors seminar this past semester, we all got together twice for 2-hour-plus study sessions in the week leading up to the exam. We shared all our reading notes. We assigned specific portions for each person to review and then share with the group. It worked out great. </p>
<p>People don't talk about grades. It's actually actively frowned on. I have pretty much no idea how my friends do in their classes and don't really care. I have friends at other schools who will call me and talk about the grade they got on their last paper or exam, and it actually makes me feel uncomfortable, like they're doing something that shouldn't be done in public. That's a reaction that's a result of my Swarthmore experience, and it probably sounds odd but there it is. Swatties support each other, but we try not to compare and we certainly don't sit around the table discussing our grades.</p>
<p>Well, unlike all the other Swatties, I will share my first semester results with everyone here and prove that secrecy does not hold the day. P, P,P and P. I also want to know why being characterized as obnoxious and arrogant would preclude me from also being characterized as friendly and interesting? Not having actually recieved any grades yet (except phantom grades) and not having been back to Swarthmore yet, I can't say that noone talks about grades, but if midterms were any indication, I will admit that noone I know has ever brought up the subject of grades and frankly, I don't care about anyone elses either, it's a personal matter and noone seems inclined to share. Concerning the matter of not wanting someone such as myself as a roomate, I have a roomate who would beg to differ and hall mates that wouldn't mind spending four years together, but since there is no honor code at Swat, they could certainly be lying.</p>
<p>swat is awesome. The people are awesome. If you have concerns and can't visit, don't apply ed. If you have more specific questions, ask them here and it seems likely you'll get 5 different answers, but at least you'll have stuff to think about.</p>
<p>I can't stress how important it is to visit the schools -- last year we visited both Swat and Haverford and there were definitely different vibes to each place. In our case, my son felt extremely comfortable at Haverford (that's where he is now) and didn't even apply to Swat. This is not to say that one is better that the other, just how important it is for the fit to be right -- and you're the only one who can make that call.</p>
<p>Agree with carpets, it's all about the vibe on campus. All these top LACs are great, but like carpets' son, my son felt instantly in tune with Haverford and Wesleyan and not with Swarthmore for some reason. Others would have the opposite reaction, I'm sure.</p>
<p>I was the opposite- I liked Haverford, loved Swarthmore and couldn't stand Wesleyan. I'm not sure how much you can really trust those quick impressions, but since there's no way to know for sure whch school is the best fit you might as well just go with the place that feels right when you visit. I think if you're the right kind of person for any of these schools, you could be happy at all of them.</p>
<p>JP--</p>
<p>what didn't you like about wesleyan? i visited the campus and just didnt really love it (could have been bc of the people i stayed w/). i'm going to swat anyway now bc of ED although i've never visited, but im wondering, what are the clear differences between the two campuses?</p>
<p>One clear difference is that Wesleyan has housing based on interest/sexual orientation/country or nationality of origin or identification, etc. At Swarthmore, students of different interests etc. are all lumped together in each dorm. My daughter preferred the latter kind of housing.</p>
<p>Actually, Wesleyan says almost all students live in general housing like the new freshman dorm, <a href="http://www.wesleyan.edu/reslife/housing/residence/fauverfrosh.htm%5B/url%5D">http://www.wesleyan.edu/reslife/housing/residence/fauverfrosh.htm</a>
Upperclassmen who want like minded roommates can choose special interest houses, called program houses, (Science House, Chinese House, Malcolm X House, Film House). Most go for general housing.
What my son said he liked about Wesleyan was the sense of a campus brimming with activity and debate. What he liked about Haverford was the feeling of community and unpretentious intellectualism. I'm not sure why Swarthmore didn't grab him; could have been just a bad morning.</p>
<p>The thing is, Wesleyan is in the middle of an actual town of about 45,000 people; student housing includes lots of bungalows, even a few mansions that may or may not be devoted to special interests; the majority are not. The administration keeps dropping hints that it may cut back on the number of these houses in the future. But, students like the idea of having the space to cook, eat and throw parties on their own, in a non-institutional setting. It means taking out your own garbage and being cognizant of the possibiltiy that your closest neighbor may be a factory worker who has to get up at six in the morning. It makes for a very different relationship with one's host city than that which may be found at the typical LAC.</p>
<p>D went to a open house at Wesleyan with me. Half way through the day she wanted to go home. Two things that switched her off: theme houses, no one from sciences among 15 or so students who gave presentations.</p>
<p>We visited Haverford. Tour guide was overly obsessed about honor code; goes on picking garbage and dropping them in garbage cans while on tour. 75% of what he said was about honor code. At the end of the tour she said, "not for me, I like to go to college with normal kids." I think it was unfortunate that we got that tour guide.</p>
<p>She is now at Swarthmore.</p>
<p>I think I've read about that same Haverford tour guide at least a half-dozen times on the CC boards.</p>