Swarthmore v. Carleton

Colleges and Universities A-Z Swarthmore College
1

<p>Anyone who frequents this board may find it a little odd to see me asking this question, but let me explain:</p>

<p>After being deferred EDI, I applied to a whole slew of other schools, and got into more of them than I expected to. When I got my Swarthmore envelope I nearly died of happiness--it had been such a long, long wait, and at that point was so unexpected. A small part of me wanted to mail in my deposit that afternoon. But my mom insisted that I sleep on it for a few nights, and wants to be certain that I'm making the right decision.</p>

<p>My top school is probably Swarthmore, followed most closely by Carleton. (I also like Wesleyan, Pomona, and Reed, if anyone has any thoughts. I am leaning away from the University of Chicago, Haverford, and American University.)</p>

<p>I am interested in studying political science/history, but the strength of the biology department is also a concern.</p>

<p>Any thoughts?</p>

<p>Here are some of the perks, as I see them:</p>

<p>Swarthmore: intellectually fervent environment, ranked highly in intensity, lpolitical activism, near Philly, not Minnesota weather, honors program, greater diversity, TriCo, harder to get into (is this a stupid perk? I feel like it might make the student body stronger, but perhaps they are so close in strength that it matters little)</p>

<p>Carleton: friendly students, more laid-back, ranked highly in 'happiness,' environmentalism, reputedly excellent Indian restaurant nearby, the slightly lower cost of living in the midwest</p>

<p>Thanks so much! I expect everyone here is royally sick of talking about me, but I really, really appreciate it.</p>

2

<p>You can't really go wrong with either one. Your interests are "tailored" to Swarthmore ("interested in studying political science/history, but the strength of the biology department is also a concern"), but I am sure Carlton would be fine as well - as long as you are ready to spend 4 years in Siberia ;)...</p>

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<p>Northfield</a> Weather Forecasts on Yahoo! Weather</p>

<p>Swarthmore</a> Weather Forecasts on Yahoo! Weather</p>

<p>That's probably the biggest difference between the two places. But, if weather isn't relevant to you, then you could just pick the one you think has the cooler bell tower:</p>

<p><a href="http://swarthmore57.com/Pictures/ClothierLarge.jpg%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://swarthmore57.com/Pictures/ClothierLarge.jpg&lt;/a>
<a href="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/25/Carleton_chapel.JPG/800px-Carleton_chapel.JPG%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/25/Carleton_chapel.JPG/800px-Carleton_chapel.JPG&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Yeah, I know... tough decision.</p>

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<p>Hahaha! The chapels are a tough choice. Record lows of -40 vs. 1, on the other hand...O.O</p>

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<p>Also, Swarthmore is more geographically diverse. Something like half (give or take 10%) of Carleton's students are from the Midwest, and a huge percent of those are from MN. THat isn't necessarily bad, but it gives a different feel.</p>

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<p>Interesting point! I hadn't considered that. Thanks.</p>

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<p>hi treesnogger,
My son was a poli sci major/history minor in the Honors Program ('07 grad) and he thought the departments were quite strong. They gave him great preparation for his current graduate studies. You've got wonderful choices -good luck with your decision!</p>

<p>Edit: If you happen to be interested in the International Relations aspect of political science, I know that last year Foreign Policy Magazine named Swarthmore as one of the top undergrad institutions to study IR. I'm almost positive it was the top liberal arts school. Also, last spring, there was a symposium on campus which brought in some of the biggest names in the field.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Swarthmore is more geographically diverse.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Huge difference in ethnic diversity as well. Due in part to its midwestern location, Carelton is among the whiter elite liberal arts colleges in the country (Current enrollment - Fall 2007):</p>

<p>White US students:
Swarthmore: 56.3%
Carleton: 73.4%</p>

<p>It has slightly fewer Internationals:</p>

<p>International students:
Swarthmore: 6.6%
Carleton: 5.7%</p>

<p>And much fewer students in every ethnic category:</p>

<p>African American students:
Swarthmore: 8.4%
Carleton: 4.8%</p>

<p>Latino/a students:
Swarthmore: 10.4%
Carleton: 5.5%</p>

<p>Asian American students:
Swarthmore: 17.3%
Carleton: 10.0%</p>

<p>Attracting a diverse student body requires a major commitment by a college to the financial resources, to admissions outreach, to faculty/staff diversity, and to building a community that is inclusive. Swarthmore makes that effort. In fact, it is one of the defining characteristics of Swarthmore at the start of the 21st century. Swarthmore is one of the most diverse elite colleges and universities in the country and the campus experience reflects that.</p>

<p>I have no doubt that Carleton has a commitment to diversity as well and I am sure that that they try very hard. But, for whatever reason, Carleton falls well short of the impressive mark set by Swarthmore in the area of building a diverse campus community.</p>

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<p>Consider the Northfield weather to be an opportunity to experience meteorological diversity. :)</p>

<p>I suspect this plays a role in limiting ethnic diversity. That, the non-urban ambiance, and the more caucasian regional demographic.</p>

<p>About geo diversity in the Carleton class of 2011:
20% from MN (vis-a-vis 15% from PA at Swarthmore)
21% from the 11 other midwestern states
10% international
Exactly the same number of students form CA and NY as from WI and IL.
More students from TX (and from PA) than from SD, ND, NE, and IA combined.</p>

<p>So Carleton has a more regional flavor, but certainly has a national profile.</p>

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<p>i'm not sure the honors program is a real plus. i work my butt off without the grief associated with the honors program. also, good indian food is hard to pass up. i also hear that the mall of america is favored over the king of prussia outlets by almost a two to one ratio by college students faced with a choice between swarthmore and carleton.</p>

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<p>Eugh, I couldn't care less about malls.</p>

<p>Indian food IS important, but I remember visiting an excellent establishment in Media, PA, not far from campus. I don't know if it compares to Chapati, but I could make do.</p>

<p>Thank you very much to everyone for such useful input!!</p>

<p>Could you speak more to this 'grief,' Duhvinci?</p>

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<p>As a follow-up to hellohowareyou: Actually, looking at the college diversity three-step:</p>

<ol>
<li>GEOGRAPHIC - Similar levels of diversity. Preponderance of Northeasterners at Swat, lots of Midwesterners at Carleton.</li>
</ol>

<p>Carleton: Descartesz' numbers are on the mark. To expand a bit, approx:
Midwest 40%
West 20%
Northeast 20%
South and Southwest 10%
Int'l 10%</p>

<p>Swarthmore: From school site (Facts and Figures):
Northeast 56% (Middle Atlantic 44%, New England 12%)
West 12%
Midwest 10%
South/Southwest 15%
Int'l 7%</p>

<ol>
<li><p>RACIAL - Edge to Swarthmore. ID's numbers are on the mark. Swat's done a great job with recruiting. Comparatively larger minority population regionally has helped. Carleton's answer recently has been to recruit more aggressively (and more effectively) internationally.</p></li>
<li><p>ECONOMIC - Edge to Carleton. A very modest, financially and otherwise, low-key bunch on campus. 75% of students hold down part-time jobs. Unusually large percentage of students receiving some form of financial aid - 79% - compared to Swarthmore's 51% (similar to Amherst/Williams).</p></li>
</ol>

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<p>Something's wrong with your numbers. The Carleton number for financial aid is not correct.</p>

<p>On their latest Common Data Set filing for 2007-08, 55% of Carleton students received need based aid (1083 of 1986).</p>

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<p>treesnogger,
If I remember correctly, Duhvinci is a freshman, so his knowledge of honors program will be pretty limited...</p>

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<p>treesnogger, if you are interested in learning about the Honors Program, it would be best to hear from a student who has participated. I'm not sure what "grief" Duhvinci is alluding to.
Edit: nngmm, I believe that Duhvinci is a junior, and I would be interested to hear his comments about this "grief," since it doesn't seem as if he in the Honors Program based on his last comment.</p>

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<p>Based on your original post in this thread, Swarthmore College is definitely the better choice for you. The substantial difference in weather appears to be important to you and, therefore, is a significant factor favoring the selection of Swarthmore. To me, Swarthmore College is similiar to the University of Chicago & Yale University with the advantage of cross registration to Haverford & Bryn Mawr akin to that offered by the Claremont Colleges.</p>

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<p>Duhvinci is a sophomore. DD is a junior in the Honors program--and really likes it ( I hesitate to say loves it!). But she is an academic masochist. So far, her 2 seminars have been great. They are a lot of work, especially when they are very small, so that you cannot spread the participation load more equally! But that's what students love about them--the close relationships they form with the professor and the rest of the group, and the chance to focus on one area of their major so intensely. I can definitely see how the seminars are tremendous preparation for graduate school</p>

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<p>treesnogger--I am a huge 5-C fan (husband and I graduated from 2 of them) and SADLY, between our 2 kids, they turned down offers from 3 of them (one for Swat, one for Olin). I believe they each would have been extremely happy in Claremont, and our Swattie may have been happier with the sunshine. BUT, since one of your parents is a Prof there--maybe it would be better to branch away from familiarity? (On the other hand--the comment about cross-registration is really moot. There is really very little similarity between the cross-registration experiences at the 5-C's and the Tri-Co--so don't give that too much weight in the equation.)</p>

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<p>Sorry--I have no idea why I read the end postings here--so my last reply was out of context. For some reason I thought you were considering Swat vs. Pomona--I guess because of the reference to the cross registrations. I have no perspective on Carleton other than it's very cold!</p>

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<p>"Something's wrong with your numbers. The Carleton number for financial aid is not correct."</p>

<p>ID, I believe 1190's numbers come from here: College</a> Navigator - Carleton College</p>

<p>And, although his statistic "some form of financial aid" appears to be for 2005-2006 and would seem to include non-need based aid, too, I don't think this accounts for all of the discrepancy here.</p>

<p>Frankly, I think you'll agree that FA-friendliness cannot be evaluated by any one statistic. Average amounts, loan and work-study%, federal grant levels (for truly disadvantaged students) etc., all would need to be studied.</p>