<p>convince me why Swarthmore is better?
Thanks</p>
<p>It's not "better", it's "different".</p>
<p>One way that it will be different is that you won't be 1 of 23,206 undergrads at Swarthmore.</p>
<p>They are two different worlds. It would be a good idea to visit-- to see how huge the difference is. If it is not possible for you to visit Swarthmore, maybe you could visit Pomona, just to see what LAC feels like.</p>
<p>I can think of no greater dichotomy among the truly great colleges and universities in this country than between Berkeley and Swarthmore. I earned my masters @ Berkeley in the mid seventies (it hasn't changed much in 30 years) and lived within a couple miles of campus for 8 years. My son is a freshman @ Swat. </p>
<p>I truly love Berkeley for many reasons. It is big, beautiful and sophisticated. It has great sports, including a recently extremely successful football team. When I was a an active Bear I saw world records broken on the track, U.S. vs. Soviet track meets, John McEnroe play tennis in Harmon Gym and the best water polo team in America, Stanford's not withstanding. The campus is smack in the epicenter of the gritty city of Berkeley. Fantastic food, coffee, culture, weirdos & freaks (these are good), and internationalism abound. Berkeley truly nurtures the disabled. The weather is often glorious. The views of San Francisco unparalleled. Sounds just about perfect, doesn't it?</p>
<p>However, there are other factors. While I loved Berkeley as a 27 year old Air Froce veteran grad student, I'm not so sure how much I would have loved it as an 18 year old undergrad. Some things to think about. Many classes are taught by grad students, which isn't ALWAYS bad. Some survey class sizes do run to the hundreds. Unless you are particularly tough minded, assertive, self confident and outgoing, Berkeley could be overwhelming to an 18 year old. I believe on-campus housing is only guaranteed for 1 year. Then thinks get interesting. Parking is crazy if not impossible. Amongst the 20-somethings attending Boalt Law School, The Haas Business School, The Optometry School and all the PhD programs, undergrads can probably often feel relatively insignificant. Possibly surprsingly, frats and sororoties are a pretty big deal. Then there is California's budget woes and it's legislature's apparent disdain for the treasure represented by the best public university in the land. For this last reason especially, I am sad to say, my son did not even apply to Cal. Our concern was that budget cutbacks would lead to a deterioration in quality, including even larger class sizes and more TA-taught classes.</p>
<p>In contrast Swarthmore is equally (almost) as beautiful. It has much more open space and, as a result, I don't think it is actually that much smaller. Berkely has 10 times as many buildings, but the density is much greater. The result is a peaceful, tranquil Swarthmore atmosphere vs. the urban feel of Cal.
Swarthmore exists for the undergrad. Berkeley exists for the grad student. At Swarthmore you will be taught by the best (Berkely has Nobel Laureats, but on the other hand the worst prof I had at Cal (name withheld) was a Nobel winner). Swarthmore profs are there to teach because they love to teach. The classes are truly very small. Individual attention is the rule. You can not get lost at Swat. You will know everyone. You will not be an anonymous krill. If the place floats your boat, you will get probably the best undergrad education available in the country. I believe a Swarthmore BA will have greater clout with grad schools than a Berkeley BA.</p>
<p>Both schools have fantastic things to offer, but they are as different as night and day. If you truly know what your strenghts, limitations, interests and priorities are, this choice should actually be a no-brainer.</p>
<p>Marlgirl, on the other hand, has a somewhat dicier and more interesting choice. I hope you choose Swarthmore, Marlgirl, but I'm not sure which is best for you. Perhaps the agricultural school (just kidding), but I hope not.</p>
<p>Great post, gladdad ! I've always had a fascination for Berkeley, and so has my son. We both went cross-country, 3000 miles to see it. My son, like yours, ended up not applying for the same reasons.</p>
<p>Thanks achat. As you can surely tell, I love Berkeley, but I sleep better with my son at Swat.</p>
<p>Along with many others I have enjoyed the many insightful posts of both you and interesteddad, and others too. They are invariably informative and entertaining. We are indeed fortunate parents, as are our kids.</p>
<p>Just can't let my sloppy writing stand as is for fear of making Star's decision too easy.</p>
<p>I didn't really mean to say that our kids are fortunate parents. While it is conceivable that some of them may be parents (godforbid), they could hardly be fortunate parents simultaneous to being Swarthmore freshmen without being oxymorons as well.</p>
<p>
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they could hardly be fortunate parents simultaneous to being Swarthmore freshmen without being oxymorons as well.
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</p>
<p>Or, just plain morons!</p>
<p>gladdad, thank you so much for your ideas. I am becoming more interested in Swarthmore but the only thing that bothers me is that it is too far from where I live, and I don't know if i am ready to away far from my family.</p>
<p>star, you're welcome. And you are also correct. The proximity of Berkeley to San Mateo vs. the 3,000 miles to Swarthmore is one big difference I failed to mention. Being able to bop home from Cal whenever it gets a little overwhelming could signficantly mitigate against the potential negatives of plunging directly into the deep end of the pool. My son definitely suffered some off-again on-again home sickness this year. He missed his homies, his family and his mom's cooking. On the other hand, he was able to attend the presidential inauguration (albeit while grinding his teeth and being sneered at by Republicans) and is getting a taste of east coast culture (he and a friend have just begun setting up a debate team in Chester (a neighboring stressed community). </p>
<p>A great example is that when we decided that 4 days was not long enough to justify his coming home for Thanksgiving, he went to Manhattan with friends instead. To our shock and dismay, we got a call from him riding the NY subways alone @ 1:00 A.M. At one point he fell asleep on the train and ended up in Brooklyn by mistake. Then, returning to the upper west side (near Columbia) he apparently ended up on the wrong line and found himself having to walk about a mile down 125th street through Harlem, at about 3:00 A.M., again by himself (you're probably wondering about his SAT scores about now). Anyway, he assured us that he did his best Eminem imitation and was in absolutely no danger. Bottom line, he survived and now has great stories to tell. So his cloistered Swarthmore existence hasn't turned out to be quite as cloistered as we anticipated.</p>
<p>star, if you want do be able to continue laying your laundry on mom (no small deal) and want to be able to avail yourself of some soul nourishing home cooked Azerbiganian (sp?) food from time to time, by all means become a Bear. I doubt that you will regret your choice. But if you want the best undergraduate education you can get and believe you are ready to step out, in my opinion Swat is your best bet by far.</p>