<p>I'm trying to decide which one (or maybe both) to apply to. I've visited Davidson, but I haven't visited Swarthmore, nor do I know much about it. Can anyone who knows them well compare the two schools?</p>
<p>I go to Davidson and my best friend from high school goes to Swarthmore. Before interesteddad goes off on how swarthmore is the greatest thing since sliced bread and how he almost ruined his daughters life by suggesting that she look at Davidson, let me say that the student bodies of the two schools are quite dissimilar. I can't imagine someone trying to choose between the two-because if you like one you probably would dislike the other. Davidson has great academic and that is th emain focus of the school. It is not as diverse, demographically, as swarthmore, and if that is the most important thing to you, you should choose to go to Swarthmore. The athletics are better at Davidson. Academically, they are pretty similar-Davidson is more pre-professional and Swarthmore produces more PH.D's(see ID's references to that, ad nauseum). But, I would investigate the schools very well, I believe one or the other would appeal to you(based on your particular preferences) but not both. My friend who goes to Swarthmore-regrets his decison to attend, but I blame a bad roomate situation his freshman year and some problems with the basketball coach on that.</p>
<p>I am familiar with both schools, having visited with my daughter and researched them extensively.</p>
<p>On the surface, they are very similar schools. Both small liberal arts colleges located in the suburbs of large cities and traditionally regarded as academically rigorous.</p>
<p>Beneath the surface, they are as different as night and day. Choosing between the two, if fortunate enough to have acceptance letters in hand, would actually be quite easy because they are so different in overall campus culture.</p>
<p>Size: Although Davidson has grown a bit recently, it is still quite small at around 1700 students. Swarthmore is just under 1500 students.</p>
<p>Academics: Both are known as academically rigorous schools where studying hard is a tradition and the faculty pushes willing students. Swarthmore is probably the most academically oriented liberal arts college in the country. </p>
<p>Having said that, there are some differences. Swarthmore's median SAT scores are about 100 points higher than Davidson's, so it is definitely harder to get into (although a Southerner would stand out in their admissions pool just like a damn Yankee would stand out in Davidson's admissions pool...).</p>
<p>Both produce huge numbers of future doctors and lawyers. However, Davidson is has a very pre-professional flavor among the student body. Swarthmore is one of the biggest future PhD producers -- on a per grad basis, third in the country behind two tech schools, CalTech and Harvey Mudd. 21% of all Swarthmore grads got a PhD. over the most recent 10 year period. 7.5% of Davidson grads got a PhD, 57th in the country. This is neither good nor bad; it just highlights the nature of the student body at the two schools with Swarthmore having more future college profs, science researcher and think-tank geeks along with the doctors, lawyers, and investment bankers. More on this later under the topics "Diversity" and "Campus Culture".</p>
<p>Location: Davidson is about 20 miles north of Charlotte in what I would describe as a distant and newer suburban area. Car is the only real means of transportation. Swarthmore is 11 miles from downtown Philadelphia, in an old neighborhood "inside the beltway". The actual campus is totally wooded, a national arboreteum and drop-dead gorgeous. However, half a mile away (on foot for by city bus) is a large shopping mall, Target, Best Buy, etc. There is a train station in the middle of campus -- 20 minutes to downtown Philadelphia. Having a car at Swarthmore is not only unnecessary, but a pain in the butt.</p>
<p>Finances: Swarthmore is one of the wealthiest college or universities in the country. Its per student endowment is in the top-10 (colleges and universities) at $738,000 per student. Davidson's is healthy at $195,000 per student. Not including financial aid, Swarthmore spends $68,300 per student each year. Davidson spends $45,500 per student.</p>
<p>*Diversity: * Here is where we start getting into the stark differences. Swarthmore is one of the most diverse elite colleges in the country. 38% of its students are either non-white or non-US. Davidson is one of the whitest elite colleges in the country. Only 16% of its students are non-white or non-US. Black enrollment is about the same, but Swarthmore has double the internationals, more than double the Latinos, and eight times more Asian-Americans. </p>
<p>Socio-economic diversity also not close. Only 34% of Davidson students qualify for need-based financial aid versus 48% of Swarthmore students. Although stats are not available, the same trends would likely apply to religious diversity (i.e Jewish students, etc.) as well as gay/lesbian diversity.</p>
<p>Thus, among very selective LACs, Swarthmore is one of the most diverse (by any measure), while Davidson is one of the most homogenously white and wealthy. Walking around the two campuses, this difference would be immediately apparent and impacts dorm life, the classroom, the social scene, etc. </p>
<p>Campus culture: There is signifcant difference in campus culture issues on a number of fronts. First, Davidson could best be described as very preppy; Swarthmore as decidedly not-preppy. Both are loaded with smart, engaged students, but they are different. </p>
<p>Second, Davidson is very heavy into sports -- the only top LAC that competes in Div I with athletic scholarships. 10% of Davidson's entire budget is spent on athletics. Swarthmore is a decidedly non-athletic school. They dumped their football team a few years ago because they couldn't justify allocating 10% of the incoming male freshman class to football recruits when diversity and academics were top priorities for the limited number of freshmen slots.</p>
<p>Third, Davidson is heavily oriented around frats and eating clubs with very high percentage of frat membership (40%). As you would expect, frat parties and drinking will, therefore, be a dominant aspect of the social scene. While Swarthmore has two small frats, they have minimal presence (7%) and have mostly athletes as members. Overall, the drinking scene at Swarthmore is mild compared to the national average with lower than average surveyed binge drinking rates and few, if any alcohol poisonings in a given year. Don't get me wrong. There is plenty of alcohol at Swat and plenty of non-drinkers at Davidson. But, taken as a whole, the social scene will be different. This is another aspect of the diversity issue as wealthy and white tend to correlate with more of a frat-style social scene nationally.</p>
<p>Fourth, Davidson is more "conservative" politically and Swarthmore more "liberal" politically. An extreme liberal would probably feel out of place at Davidson and an extreme conservative would probably feel out of place at Swarthmore. I suspect that most students at both schools float around a little closer to one side of center or the other. I tend to think politics are over-rated in college selection, but it's worth noting in case you are extreme in either direction.</p>
<p>Overall, the comparison between the two schools highlights the importance of understanding the personality of each school and figuring out what you are looking for. Both of these schools are excellent undergrad colleges, but they are so different that it should be easy to decide one fits your personality better than the other if you were lucky enough to have a choice. Because this issue of personality and fit is so important, it would be impossible for any stranger to say that either Davidson or Swarthmore is "better" for you. I might say that green is the best color, but if you like yellow, then yellow is the right choice!</p>
<p>Hope this helps.</p>
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But, I would investigate the schools very well, I believe one or the other would appeal to you(based on your particular preferences) but not both.
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<p>I think that both could appeal to the same student, but probably only if the student were smack-dab in the middle of the two styles. For example, I suspect that some of the athlete/frat boys at Swarthmore would be happy at Davidson and some of the GDIs at Davidson would be happy at Swarthmore.</p>
<p>Also, there is a type of student that is so academically focused that nothing else really matters. Eat, sleep, library. That student would probably be happy at either school, oblivious to everything else around them.</p>
<p>At the end of the day, both schools cater to smart, earnest, motivated students, so there is quite a bit of overlap.</p>
<p>BTW, I do regret pushing Davidson as hard as I did to my daughter, but only because it wasn't the right school FOR HER. The same thing could easily apply in reverse.</p>
<p>I think the two previous posters are both right and made good points; the schools are quite different and both excellent. I think if you want to get out of NC to be farther from home but like the atmosphere at Davidson, you might look at some of the top northern LACSs other than Swarthmore; Williams comes to mind. Another possibility would be Dartmouth, which is not technically an LAC but has some similarities to Davidson in a very different climate. If you did not like the atmosphere at Davidson when you visited and want an LAC with a somewhat different flavor, then you might very well like Swarthmore, and also might want to look at places like Wesleyan. It is a matter of fit, not quality. All these schools are first-rate academically.</p>
<p>I agree, Mattmom. I think that Williams and Davidson have similar campus cultures. Same with Dartmouth, on a larger scale, although both have much more diversity than Davidson.</p>
<p>A school that sits sort of halfway between Davidson and Swarthmore on the spectrum is Haverford, with elements of each.</p>
<p>Thanks! That was extremely helpful. </p>
<p>One more question-of any of the LACs mentioned above, are there any similar to Duke in terms of student body/social scene? I visited recently and I absolutely hated it. It seems like Davidson might be similar. :confused:</p>
<p>We came away from family visits to Davidson, UNC, UVA, Wake Forest, and W&M with generally positive feeling about all of them. Like you, we all hated Duke.</p>
<p>It has a reputation as a "cold" somewhat unfriendly place and I'm not exactly sure what causes that. I could be wrong, but my hunch is that there is a degree of "snootiness" or "elitism" that you simply don't find at any LAC I've ever visited.</p>
<p>On the one hand, Davidson does appeal to many of the same students. But, my sense is that Davidson is a "warmer", more "friendly" less pretentious place. Swarthmore is the opposite of "snooty". You can't tell the rich kids from the poor kids and the college goes out of its way in that regard with policies like making ALL campus activities free, etc. </p>
<p>For example, my daughter went with a group of a dozen Swarthmore friends to New York for the weekend last year, staying at the upper east side apartment of a dormmate. Clearly, money is not an issue for some of these kids. But, rather than take the train, which costs $35 each way, they took the Chinatown bus, which costs $10 each way because they didn't want to exclude anyone for whom the train ticket might have a budget buster.</p>
<p>I don't have firsthand knowledge of Duke but I do think Davidson is warm and friendly; the small size helps, as does the school's underlying ethical stance (and you have visited both, so are in a better position than I am to judge). I also know Dartmouth and Williams pretty well and I think there may be some similarities in superficial ways to the public perceptions of Duke (in the sense of being very social) but neither Dartmouth nor Williams is consistently pretentious or snobby, and both are pretty down to earth when you get beyond awe at the stellar reputations.</p>
<p>I think Dartmouth does have a subset of its student body that is pretty snooty, partly due to the strong frat culture. People I know there have mentioned the society princesses. However, it is offset by a strong outdoorsy crowd. And, frankly, it's a little incongruous to be pretentious in the middle of New Hampshire.</p>
<p>Williams was not snooty at all when I was there and I would be surprised if it is today. I do think that the assumed wealth shows up in subtle ways -- like being expected to pay a social fee in your freshmen entry. Nobody would even think twice about it...except the kid who doesn't have the extra money.</p>
<p>With a very few exceptions, LACs are generally not the kind of schools that attract pretentious, showy displays of status or wealth, despite the presence of some Forbes 400 type students. After all, if brand-name status were the goal, why not pick a school that more people have heard of? I think it's actually one of the attractive things about LACs.</p>