<p>These colleges are so different, but still, I can't choose between them. I'm interested in majoring in Int'l Relations, History, Linguistics, English, Psychology, Sociology, etc. (basically anything in the humanities). I want small classes but with university resources like a wide array of courses to choose from. I prefer Swarthmore's location and Swarthmore's student body, but I like Penn's resources better. Also, I hear that Swarthmore's academics are excessively rigorous, and that many students there feel that they are in a pressure cooker. Still, I am not a party girl and I know that socially, Swarthmore is a much better fit. However, I don't want to die because of all the work and harsh grading that Swarthmore's so notorious for. </p>
<p>Basically, I need advice. And because I haven't applied to college yet, school suggestions based on the above would be greatly welcomed. Thanks!</p>
<p>For my money, it's not even close between Penn and Swarthmore. The only reason I would even consider Penn over Swarthmore would be if I were majoring in some esoteric niche field or a language Swarthmore doesn't offer. But, for the departments you mention, Swarthmore by a mile. Or, if I were lookin' for a party school.</p>
<p>You can always take courses at Penn. It's a 20 minute door to door train ride and Swarthmore will pay for the transportation. Very few Swatties take courses at Penn and those who do are sometimes disappointed.</p>
<p>Nothing you describe about yourself would change my opinion for you.</p>
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Also, I hear that Swarthmore's academics are excessively rigorous, and that many students there feel that they are in a pressure cooker.
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<p>I can only speak for my daughter. She's a contientious student. She worked hard at Swarthmore. She did fine and never worried about grades (except for Advanced Calc freshmen year, which was pass/fail anyway). </p>
<p>Her least favorite courses and professors were "OK" and she had several courses every semester that she loved and it was easy to hear the excitement when she talked about them.</p>
<p>She never complained about being in a pressure cooker. The only times she ever said anything about having a lot of work was during finals weeks, but that's pretty universal for all college students. She didn't pull her first all-nighter until a month ago, the night before her senior thesis was due.</p>
<p>I agree with ID. Penn only if you wanted an urban environment. It's a great place for grad school, among the finest in some departments and professional schools, but not in the same ballpark in terms of undergraduate education.</p>
<p>From your description of yourself, you should go to Swarthmore.</p>
<p>Of course, if you have not applied to colleges yet, the decision might very well be made for you by the adcoms when the time comes :(...</p>
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Also, I hear that Swarthmore's academics are excessively rigorous, and that many students there feel that they are in a pressure cooker.
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The "pressure cooker" image is a part of campus culture, as is "misery poker". However, I know for a fact that some students don't know the meaning of the word "deadline" because most of the professors are so nice and flexible (it was even one of the jokes in the graduation speech this year)...</p>
<p>"....the lovely professors, who've for so long understood that a due date is more of a feeling than a rule..."</p>
<p>My daughter actually once told me that she thought Swarthmore professors were too accommodating and shouldn't grant so many extensions. She was once talking with a prof about a final paper and he asked if she wanted an extension. She said, "NO! Don't you dare offer me an extension. I want to get it done...."</p>
<p>S also felt profs were too liberal in granting extensions. He also refused to ask for them, even when he had a very emotionally draining weekend and had a hard time concentrating on his paper.</p>
<p>The way my daughter dealt with the workload was to plan out her time. So for a given end of semester reading period and exam week, she'd lay out what had to be done (two papers, a take-home exam, learn 500 paintings for an art history exam, etc.) and allocate available nights for each project, mixing them up so she might do art history flash cards and work on a social science paper one night, just for variety. Then, she just stick to her schedule. If she had allocated three nights for a paper, she turned in a "three-night" paper and that was that.</p>
<p>She also seemed to develop a feel for professors and whether incrementally more time invested in a paper would produce any measurable difference. She reached the point of knowing, with some professors, exactly what her grade would be on a paper before she even started writing it and, that spending three weeks instead of three nights, wouldn't make any difference.</p>
<p>I think it's a very healthy approach to Swarthmore. It's not the kind of school where you want to beat yourself up trying to achieve perfection with every assignment.</p>
<p>In fairness to the Professors, Swarthmore is very demanding academically, but the entire College understands that and is looking to help students be successful, not break them down. I'm not sure the tales of "misery poker" accurately convey how supportive the academic culture is under the hard exterior.</p>
<p>It's not the work that I'm afraid of, it's the fact that "anywhere else, it would have been an A" might come back to bite me when I apply to grad school. And I'm a perfectionist, which just might kill me if I go to a school with more work than any other... ID, your daughter sounds really gifted in organization skills, which I'm seriously lacking in. If I was was more organized, I'd have no problem, because I know how to churn out large amounts of work, but my perfectionism paired with the fact that I can be so unorganized might pose a problem, and to be truthful, I'm scared.</p>
<p>Besides that, I like that Penn offers a submatriculation program, where you can get both your B.A. and your M.A. in four years flat. Still, when I went to Swarthmore, I fell in love with it, and in a way that hasn't yet happened anywhere else. I love its location (near but not in a large city) and the people seem really genuine and sweet, and they seem to be a lot nerdier than their Penn counterparts, which really suits me, since I'm a pretty big lit nerd. Plus, I don't want to be in a big city, just near one. But Penn has a much bigger linguistics department, and it has more courses in the type of linguistics I like. Of course, there is the consortium, so I could take those classes anyway. And there are a lot of grad students, which I'm sure changes the feel of the school, but how much of a difference will it really make in the humanities? I mean, how much funding do you really need to study literature? It's not like in the sciences where you actually need those resources to learn...</p>
<p>I'm conflicted. I can't decide whether the school for me is either of these two, or neither of them. It wouldn't matter if I didn't want to apply early, but I really want to know where I'm going by New Year's, so really, I have to decide now. Does anyone have any suggestions for other schools to look at? Wellesley and Barnard are also on the list (safeties include Mt. Holyoke, Sarah Lawrence and Bryn Mawr).</p>
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Still, when I went to Swarthmore, I fell in love with it, and in a way that hasn't yet happened anywhere else.
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<p>That ought to tell you something. That's exactly what happened with my daughter when she first visited. Went back for an overnight and to really kick the tires and still loved it. Applied Early Decision. Spent four years at Swarthmore and still loves it. That's the way it's supposed to work.</p>
<p>If you are lucky enough to actually fall in love with a college AND get accepted, why fight it?</p>
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ID, your daughter sounds really gifted in organization skills, which I'm seriously lacking in. If I was was more organized, I'd have no problem, because I know how to churn out large amounts of work, but my perfectionism paired with the fact that I can be so unorganized might pose a problem, and to be truthful, I'm scared.
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<p>She was contientious in high school, but hardly organized. She mostly did her homework while watching Dawson's Creek on TV.</p>
<p>She took the three-day seminar on study skills taught by Swat seniors at the end of winter break her first year. That's where she learned most of the tricks of the trade that got her through Swarthmore, especially the value of making a habit of going to the library to study every night after dinner. She and her friends went together in a group. Read for an hour, ten minute break in one of the lounges. Read for another hour. It made studying both productive and social.</p>
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I know how to churn out large amounts of work, but my perfectionism paired with the fact that I can be so unorganized might pose a problem
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This sounds like my daughter. She's done very well at Swarthmore, and I am pretty sure that she'll have no problem with grad school apps when the time comes. All her friends who applied this year got into their top choice programs, btw. Grad schools love Swarthmore.</p>
<p>Another school you might want to look at if you want an early decision without the commitment is U Chicago. It is in the city, but otherwise seems like a better fit than Penn...</p>