Swarthmore vs. University of Virginia

Colleges and Universities A-Z Swarthmore College
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<p>Hey, I was wondering if any of you have some insight into my dilemma. I am stuck between going to Swarthmore and University of Virginia (as an Echols scholar). Right now, I'm somewhat leaning towards Swarthmore because I'm kind of afraid that I would merely be another number in a campus as large as UVa's. However, I'm still going back and forth between the two because of the rumors of Swarthmore's very hard grading policy. Throughout high school, I have taken the most difficult classes possible, but have managed to get through them with relative ease, and my studying behaviors are somewhat lax. I'm determined to do whatever work necessary to do very well at Swarthmore (for pre-med), but my parents don't seem to think that I can change that easily.</p>

<p>Also, I was a bit concerned about the opportunities for research and clinical time at Swarthmore, seeing as how it is a fairly small school. I know that admissions people will say that opportunities are great, seeing as how it's so close to Philly, but I want to know the reality of the matter, whether any research opportunities will be in rarity or not.</p>

<p>I have been going back and forth in my mind over this problem, and I need to do something to allay my parents' fears, because they don't think I'm ready for such a rigorous place as Swat, while I do. Anyone have any insight?</p>

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However, I'm still going back and forth between the two because of the rumors of Swarthmore's very hard grading policy. Throughout high school, I have taken the most difficult classes possible, but have managed to get through them with relative ease, and my studying behaviors are somewhat lax. I'm determined to do whatever work necessary to do very well at Swarthmore (for pre-med), but my parents don't seem to think that I can change that easily.

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<p>Swarthmore's grading policy is not that unusual. The average GPA is a B+ or so. Trust me, you would not be the first Swattie who cruised through high school without breaking a sweat and adjusted to college academics just fine. I would guess that is probably fairly typical. That's precisely why the first semester is pass/fail. It is very unlikely that you will finish Swarthmore with a 4.0 GPA. On the other hand, the pre-med office says the average GPA for Swatties accepted to Ivy League medical schools is a 3.7.</p>

<p>In fairness to your parents, there is no way for them to possibly imagine how smart you will get at Swarthmore. I think it's something in the water. The students just figure out how to perform at a very high level. It's been one of the real joys of being a Swarthmore parent. Kind of humbling, too...when your kid can suddenly debate circles around you. </p>

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Also, I was a bit concerned about the opportunities for research and clinical time at Swarthmore, seeing as how it is a fairly small school. I know that admissions people will say that opportunities are great, seeing as how it's so close to Philly, but I want to know the reality of the matter, whether any research opportunities will be in rarity or not.

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<p>I've never caught the Swarthmore admissions office in a lie. My experience after three years as a Swattie parent is: what you see is what you get. There are research oppotunities on campus, in which students can get published with their professors. There are off-campus hospital internships. Many Swatties do summer research internships.</p>

<p>Last year, 100% of the seniors applying to med school were accepted. The overall acceptance rate, including alumni applicants was 88%. On average, about 30 Swatties (seniors and alum) are accepted to med school each year. That's nearly 10% of an average graduating class.</p>

<p>There is no question in my mind that Swarthmore is a better, more intensive, more interactive undergrad academic experience than UVa can typically provide. I cannot praise the academics strongly enough...it is really a unique place where the faculty and students are so engaged. It's not that Swarthmore is "harder" than any other college. It's that, on average, more students are actually prepared for class, so less time can be spent covering stuff "from the book" and more time pressing forward with discussions or whatever. The faculty feeds off that (they really appreciate not being constantly asked "is this on the test?") and tries to figure out ways to challenge the students.</p>

<p>Of course, the academic program is just one facet of college, so you also have to weigh cost, size, social scene, and all the other factors. UVa's a cool place.</p>

3

<p>Thanks for the great post! I really appreciate it, although I still think I need to do some soul searching to find out which one's best for me.</p>

4

<p>We are Virginians with a faculty friend on staff at Swat, and we visit. Swat and UVa do not resemble each other as college experiences one bit, but every UVa grad I know is fully employed, often went to a good graduate school and still loves UVA big time. It is a great networking school..tons of satisfied graduates.</p>

<p>Virginia is more of a "love Charlottesville as its own Zen experience" while Swat is all about intense personal relations with full professors and often..Swat is about future achievement in graduate studies. One lovely Echols student we met described his favorite class and prof to us and then to our shock admitted there were five hundred students in the class. Whoa! Does class registration advantage really make up for this? Yes, if you are very imaginative and you are visionary. No, if being in a class of 500 takes the joy right out of you, which is how it affects my son. This Echols kid we met will ace the LSAT regardless of where he spends four years. He likes the broad wide scene at UVa.</p>

<p>Virginia is a wonderful community with both big and small school experiences to be had..for those who can initiate and can assume responsibility daily only. Virginia has a pretty fantastic and varied social life.</p>

<p>Son was Echols but chose Duke, another friend is Echols and is maxing it out with a very creative use of his academic freedom from the required curriculum..mulitiple foreign language mastery, foreign study, research. Many classes he chooses are smaller. Echols can mean a lot if you are self directed.
My son felt he would personally not work up to his potential at Virginia..he is more of a workhorse personality and he is very auditory (lectures mean a lot) and wanted small classrooms to dominate his experience in college. He adores his Duke professors in every department, and personal relationships with teachers are essential to his learning experience.<br>
There are many kids I know at UVa who are not working nearly as hard as kids at Swat, and a few are not working hard at all and we scratch our heads about it. Swat kids seem to consider work their pleasure when it is done among close friends and colleagues. The kids I know at Virginia who are sailing through and on to fine graduate schools are very "quick study" people. They upload information easily and easily assume 80% of the responsibility to learn on their own. They seek out professors and propose research. They are also very socially adept.<br>
I would not avoid Swat out of a desire to graduate with a high GPA. Go to Swat if you want intimacy and intensity with peers and teachers. If you are one of those wide open prairie people and need a bigger sea and would feel a bit claustrophobic at a smaller LAC, go to UVa and give it 100%, but know you will have be bullish if you want to know your teachers well. Swarthmore is a college experience that cannot be duplicated or even understood well until you experience it. Personally, I would recommend Swat now and a bigger research school for your next chapter in life.</p>

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The kids I know at Virginia who are sailing through and on to fine graduate schools are very "quick study" people. They upload information easily and easily assume 80% of the responsibility to learn on their own. They seek out professors and propose research.

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<p>I think that to get a truly exceptional education at a large university, you have to be an aggressive self-starter. Of course, if you are an aggressive self-starter at Swarthmore, the amount of money you can get for independent research, published research, internships, community service projects, foreign study projects, and stuff is nearly unlimited. The money is sitting there for just about anything if you are hot stuff, with a good idea, that you can sell. Lang community service grants. Paid research positions. Discretionary department grants for senior thesis work. Putting together your own one-on-one directed reading course with a favorite professor.</p>

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<p>Interesteddad is absolutely right about the admissions office being honest about the Swarthmore experience. That has been our family's experience and, more importantly, my son's (who is the student there) experience as well. </p>

<p>My son also had a choice between U of Michigan and Swarthmore, so the comparision is almost the same. At the time, our family did not know too much about Swarthmore except that it was a great college.</p>

<p>He is now in his third year. His overall grades are, frankly, not a 4.0 but he really really enjoys his college experience and more importantly since he came in totally undecided, he had plenty of time to decide what he really likes. He has a major now and interests in one other field and going into a great liberal arts college such as Swarthmore has made him able to find out what he likes and dislikes and a lot about himself and who he is as a person. This is not a commercial about the value of a broad liberal arts education, btw, I am just speaking from personal experience. You might also get that at UVa as well.</p>

<p>There is also the endowment per student that Interestedad often mentions. I cannot tell you how important that is. Without going into specifics, a student has a lot of opportunities because of this that he/she might not get elsewhere.</p>