Look at Thematic Option at USC.
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If you liked UChicago, youâll love Swarthmore.
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I donât really see why Berkeley is still in the running here. If youâre going to choose a larger, elite university in California, go for the free one! Admiring the âactivist cultureâ is in no way a good enough reason to spend over 70K/year for UCB over USC. There is plenty of activism at USC, and conversely there are plenty of UCB students who are hunkered down, working on their own stuff and caring not a whit about activism. The difference is mainly historical and not remotely worth spending six figures for.
This should be a head-to-head choice between paying (full pay, or do you get some aid?) for Swat, or going to USC for free. I see why the academic culture at Swarthmore appeals to you, but the price difference is pretty huge to choose a school that wasnât even one of your top choices going in. I think the suggestion to apply to the Thematic Option at USC (priority deadline 4/15) is an excellent one. This would give you the intellectually-intense cohort youâre looking for.
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If your parents donât care about the cost and just want the best fit for you (and yes they exist despite CC views that overfocus on money) then donât go to the place âyou canât see yourselfâ. I have high respect for kidsâ instinct on this. If USC doesnât feel right and Swarthmore does, AND your parents donât mind the additional cost, then go to Swarthmore. Agree UCB is probably not in play.
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I agree with @relaxmon on this point, but initially hesitated. I tend to take people at their word and accept âmoney is not an issueâ at face value. However, free is compelling. I canât argue otherwise.
But like @relaxmon , what hit me about your post is that you donât seem to want to attend USC. You seem to know what it is, and while of course there will be people there of every intellectual stripe and color, there is no question that the two schools are quite different in culture, tone and scale. Itâs hard for two places to be much more different.
So Iâd say this: if money is truly not an issue (as in, it wonât change a thing for your parents, including future support in grad school) and your gut says Swat, then go to Swat. But if âmoney is not an issueâ means Mom and/or Dad will work another 5 years for retirement savings, then I think you can make USC work.
I myself would prefer Swarthmore for undergrad, and to be really unhelpful Iâd rather attend UCB than USC unless I were interested in film. Berkeley, people tend to forget or overlook here on CC, is a historically significant school. The history of the place just jumps out at you when walking the campus. âOh, thatâs where modern chemistry was essentially developed. Over there, the free speech movement born.â I have always been and will forever be a big fan of Cal. Theyâre just so damned good at everything ⊠itâs a hard place to turn down other than itâs bursting at the seams with demand and people and all the direct admission to the major and related hassles. But come on, SC is not Berkeley (IMO).
You have some nice choices. You should be proud of yourself and forget about the Chicago schools. Weather sucks there something fierce.
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You have some great options OP! Congratulations! Two points: a school will not make you happy. Will you feel more comfortable and excited about your education at one school versus another? Maybe. But no school will afford you happiness. And if you have been in private K-12 (or even 9-12) education, the adjustment to UCB will be hard. But maybe exciting. And one more closing point. Donât start a school with the intent to transfer. It just makes transferring a foregone conclusion, and a missed opportunity for a sense of belonging at the school you chose to attend.
Good luck and have fun at accepted students days. California is an impressionist painting of color right now due to the recent rains after the years of drought. The wildflowers on the hills are such a joyous celebration of spring!
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Donât forget - Swat nor an LAC was in consideration except for the rejection of ED1 and 2 schools and the top 20s applied.
Itâs not like Swat is a first choice and I donât think OP knows about it other than I hear the quality of education will be better and itâs the Chicago of LACs.
I heard Microsoft stock will be up next year. But I wonât be any without first doing a deep dive.
And yes back to money - especially when it will cost a boatload. I want to ensure I know what Iâm getting.
Yeah, I feel a little ambivalent here. On the one hand, I donât tend to focus as much on other peopleâs money situations as many posters on CC do just because we really donât know whatâs going on and I donât usually see much point in it unless the poster is clear about their financial picture and are also clueless about real costs. So normally when someone says, âcost isnât an issueâ I leave it at that, while many others donât. But, in this case, after re-reading the thread, I see this:
So I canât really tell if money is truly no object or if it is.
I also see evidence the OP understands well the differences between the two schools and other things that make me doubt a little if she really knows what she wants (OP suggests the plan is to transfer after freshman year).
However, one thing sheâs been told is that Swat is more like Chicago than is USC, and that is hard to dispute. So, if she really liked Chicago, and that view is at least partially informed, then I think there is something to the idea of going with Swat as a suitable alternative for a kid who was gunning for the very distinct environment that exists at UofC.
Iâm out west in Pac12 country and know the schools in this conference pretty well. USC is truly its own ecosystem and, despite its size, it is not for everyone. We can never pinpoint this stuff with mathematical precision; I think we agree on that point. But it does make some kind of sense that a kid who sees herself at an intense northeastern LAC does not see herself at USC, which is quintessential LA on steroids.
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Pretty much every kid who considers themselves elite who gets rejected somewhere has the same sentiment. And guess what, if they turned you down last year, they likely will next year as well too.
But hereâs the thing - if you walk in with one foot out the door, you are far more likely to be miserable.
I like all the folks in this situation who said I chose #2 or #10 - whatever it was and say four years later - looking back I canât imagine having gone anywhere else.
OP is assuming going to a top whatever is the be all and end all. Plenty of millionaires coming from schools below even 200 and plenty of - what most would consider non-successful folks come from the top 20.
I know OP is seeking pedigree and Swat has it in spades - but it does not seem like Swat is getting the OP giddy.
I also hate to say it like this - but OP needs an ego check.
I say this - because in the end, whether itâs Northwestern or New Mexico, OP and not the school - is going to make their success. I get its bragging rights at home - but a reminder to something OP may not know.
U of Alabama has more National Merit Scholars than any school in the country - and kids like OP abound likely at just about every flagship in the country.
I applaud their hard work and success - and their future should not be defined by Northwestern, Chicago, the rest of the top 20 - or by settling for USC.
OP needs to know that they will define it - yes, even in other countries Iâm sure because with hard work, you gain a lot of âluckâ in life.
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I find it strange that Northwestern was an ED school but USC is too social?
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Agreed with this - USC strikes me as somewhat similar to Northwestern.
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Thatâs an interesting idea to kick around as well. On CC nobody would question the education received at Swat, but as someone who wears Swat swagâŠeven in Philly, there are a lot of âwhereâs thatâ?
In the real world, very few know of Swat. The further you get the lower the recognition. If you tell someone in Asia or Europe you turned down a free ride at USC for a chance to pay Swat $350k⊠itâs likely to get some reactions.
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Good point - the Trojans are world renowned.
Even Bama and no, Iâm not putting it on the same planet as any of these - but I can be in Skagway Alaska, Mexico City, Germany - and Iâll see a Bama SweatshirtâŠand a Yankees hat. SC is not there but not far awayâŠ
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The issue here is vibe, not prestige.
Iâm sure OP is well aware both are prestigious and that USC is better known (because itâs bigger and has sports).
For some kids, the very idea there are respected competitive sports is loathsome, for instance. Watching a game would elicit an incredulous sneer. One type of students would feel way more comfortable at Swarthmore than at USC. And itâs just one example of the stark differences between both colleges.
As I quoted above, my friend appreciatively said âif spending your evening talking about fonts is your idea of fun, UChic is for youâ. UChic kids by and by know thereâs a stadium but probably canât tell you where or what division teams play in (politely, or may laugh at you, because weâre not Northwestern.)
If OP is seeking a âwhere fun goes to dieâ atmosphere she will NOT find it at USC. It takes a special kind of kid to want UChic (less so now but still) or Swarthmore.
What gives me pause is precisely Northwestern, which is like USC with lake effect.
If OP was into Northwestern, then the above doesnât hold true.
Liking Northwestern means OP likes the boisterous, big school, work hard/play hard atmosphere, with smart competitive kids who all want to get somewhere (not necessarily finance or academia). And then I donât know why she doesnât like USC.
As a result I hope sheâll come back to answer questions (clarifying the finance issue, USC v.NorthwesternâŠ), as well as whether she was admitted anywhere else that may not be as stark a contrast, etc.
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Thatâs a good line.
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And, FWIW, in the rest of the world I think Berkeley is more highly thought of than USC.
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Academically, agree 100%âŠbut the brand at USC is probably stronger globally. As an easternerâŠIâm still not sure why theyâre Cal vs. Berkeley vs. UC. (no need to explainâŠmaking a point).
The NY Yankee correlation above is probably a good one. USC isnât the Yankees, but itâs a known global brand and it has the SoCal vibe (and name) being in LA.
My view since Iâve been around a few years, is that the brand as an academic powerhouse is relatively recent. USC used to be the school for kids who didnât get into UCLA or who have a strong alumni connection at SC or, and this is more 80s and before, has a family view on public vs. private which exalts private over government anything as superior in a very Reaganesque sense. USC has since become its own center of gravity from an academic standpoint, and that was very, very, very purposeful. Who would have thought the people at USC would figure out how to rebrand successfully?
I donât know much about Northwestern and will go with the flow on what it is as described by others who seem to know better. I would have guessed anything Chicago would be quite different culturally than USC. For one thing, although NW plays in the Big10 and has had some recent success with their football team, they are historically an athletic doormat in the conference largely owing, I would guess, to relative priorities. USC, OTOH, is anything but an athletic doormat and has some of the richest traditions in college football, baseball and track to go along with a fairly successful basketball program. USC owns its conference history in a way that few other schools can claim. Thatâs not NW. And LA is not Chicago. But perhaps big and boisterous is the point of comparison, and the point is well taken relative to Chicago and Swarthmore. All that to say that if a kid I knew applied to Northwestern and did not apply to USC, I would not be scratching my head.
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Yes, there is definitely a branding issue within the US.
But outside the US it is simply known as Berkeley and it doesnât much matter that no one knows it is the same as Cal.
USC may as well known as Berkeley outside the US, but I donât think it is as highly thought of.
E.g.:
USNWR world rankings:
Berkeley 4
USC 80
Times Higher Education
Berkeley 8
USC 65
I am not sure how much reputation matters to the original poster, but if she intends on working or studying outside the US after her undergraduate education, this could be a factor. The Berkeley name is still very highly respected outside the US and this could be worth the cost differential.
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Iâm not sure I agree. People are too quick to generalize schools with thousands of students, and students can often bloom wherever they are planted.
Chicago was far and away my own top choice in high school, partly because it was the best academically in my areas of interest but also because I was sold on its âlife of the mindâ vibe. The woefully inadequate financial aid at Chicago and a generous package of merit and financial aid at Duke led to my matriculation at the latter (not dissimilar to USC, in many ways). It took me a bit longer to find âmy peopleâ than it mightâve at Chicago, but I met many incredibly bright, motivated, and intellectually curious people, and it prepared me well for pursuing a PhD and career in academia.
Iâve admittedly never been a student at USC, but I have taught at USC and UCLA as a lecturer and have had some great students.
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