<p>Hi all, I posted one of these threads earlier in the parents' forum but I decided to post here before I make my final decision. I also took GW off my list because they didn't offer as much financial aid. </p>
<p>So here's me: Potential IR Major from Southern California and accepted to both schools with near-full rides (although Swat beats USC here by a few thousand). I have never stayed in the same area for more than two years so the "east vs. west / urban vs suburban" issue doesn't really matter to me. I'm very interested in study abroad programs, summer internships, alumni connections, and a strong sense of community. I am also considering a double major in Business or Econ and going to law school after undergrad. I want to go to the school which would offer me the most opportunities.</p>
<p>I like the intellectual atmosphere that Swat fosters. I sensed a stronger academic environment at Swat than at USC during admitted students events. The liberal arts atmosphere is something that really interests me. Swat also offered the most money and I heard they are generally supportive financially of study abroad, club funding, etc. Based on personal judgments, Swat students also seem to be very kind, open minded, and understanding individuals. I also know that Swat is well-respected by most top grad schools. People who know colleges tell me that Swat is more prestigious. Although, the general population seem to not know about it. My main apprehension is the size-- I don't know how I would feel being in a freshman class size of roughly 300-400 students. I knew this when I applied but I didn't really give it much thought at the time. Also, Swat doesn't have an IR major. However, I know that it is part of the PoliSci major, so that is what I would pursue if I went there.</p>
<p>USC also has a great community and I've heard that the alumni connections are extraordinary. They also have many study abroad programs to choose from and, if I choose to double major in the Marshall school of Business-- I would be getting a degree from one of the nation's top business schools. I do like the size and the diversity of the class-- most number of international students of any school and I would feel like I'd never run out of people to meet. USC is also more social than Swat and I liked the balance of academics and social life. I also know that USC offers tons of opportunities for its students should they seek them-- thematic option, SOAR, SURF, all the specialized institutes and centers on campus, more campus organizations etc. Cons: I don't know if I would be receiving the same quality of education at Swarthmore in terms of class sizes and actual professors teaching classes. I also don't know if it would help me more than Swarthmore for grad school.</p>
<p>Any advice or new information that would help me decide is appreciated. Thanks!</p>
<p>Students turn down Ivy league schools to go to Swarthmore - Williams/Amherst/Swarthmore is the liberal arts college version of Harvard/Yale/Princeton/Stanford. This is TRULY a no brainer. GO TO SWARTHMORE</p>
<p>Swarthmore will be able to provide you with unparalleled academics – you’ll have more opportunities to work with professors; you’ll have more access to professors; you won’t be overshadowed by graduate students; you won’t have graduate students teaching any of your classes or, at USC, they have recitations taught by graduate students. </p>
<p>Swarthmore regularly sends their students to graduate programs at HYPSM, Oxford, Cambridge, etc. </p>
<p>Swarthmore is also one of the highest producer of PhD graduate students – ranking somewhere around number 4. Which means that a large portion of their students continue on into graduate programs, many of which are top-ranked. Swarthmore is very well known to academics and adcoms.</p>
<p>You must be from CA…because only CA people think USC is an high level institution - it’s good but nowhere near Swarthmore for the reasons outlined about. Unfortunately many socal’s live in a socal bubble and don’t “get” what something like a Swarthmore education means (just like that they don’t get UC Riverside is much better than most flagship state schools) - That said NYU2013 broke it down pretty well. Swarthmore puts you in the conversation with HYPS academically - USC …has a good football team when they aren’t cheating their way to championships. I will say though for the incestous OC brats it is a good place to “pay the fee; buy a degree” At the end of the day, USC does not belong in the intellectual universe with Swarthmore. period.</p>
<p>I need someone to defend USC because I really don’t think it’s a no brainer, specifically for me in my situation. Someone offer me an opinion from the Pro-USC side without being sarcastic?</p>
<p>I don’t know what you’re expecting. You seem to be in favor of USC for some reason, addressing the questions you asked:</p>
<p>" I want to go to the school which would offer me the most opportunities."
Hands down, Swarthmore.</p>
<p>" I am also considering a double major in Business or Econ and going to law school after undergrad"
Swarthmore will confer slight advantage into graduate school admissions. </p>
<p>Quality of education:
Swarthmore</p>
<p>Access to faulty members:
Swarthmore</p>
<p>More opportunities to do research:
Swarthmore</p>
<p>Smaller, more intimate classes:
Swarthmore</p>
<p>Strong sense of community:
Swarthmore</p>
<p>In terms of academics, Swarthmore is the clear winner. </p>
<p>However, no one is stopping you from choosing USC if that’s what you want do. But again, no one can really ‘come to the defense of USC’ because Swarthmore is the clear winner in terms of academics and opportunities.</p>
<p>Geez, people on here don’t like USC for some reason. I think these two schools are extremely different and you know in your heart which one you belong at. Law school acceptance will depend on GPA and LSAT scores so choosing one of these schools over the other won’t really help or hurt you in any way.</p>
<p>Saying Swarthmore will have more opportunities for research is ridiculous considering USC is a major research university. You"ll probably find more diversity at USC but Swarthmore will have better professor-student interaction.</p>
<p>USC is NOT a major research university. It is a middling research university at best with some strong graduate programs (Business, Law, Medicine, Film, Social Work) but let’s not pretend chemists and physicists are USC are making any major breakthroughs. Those are saved for the Stanford’s, Berkeley’s, UCLA’s, UCSD’s etc of the world.</p>
<p>Defense for USC - okay, I’m game. If you are very strong academically, it will be easier to stand out than at Swarthmore. Swarthmore’s intellectually intense culture is not a fit for everyone - if you are from the west coast, the culture is quite different (as a west coaster myself, it took a long time to get used to all the ‘social complaining’ about how hard life is - before I realized that people were just making conversation, not actually in distress.) The weather is better. The social life is qualitatively different - theres a frat scene, there’s a sports scene, there’s a live-life-outside orientation - which isn’t there at Swarthmore, making USC a more ‘typical’ college experience. The school is bigger so there are more majors and more breadth in the coursework - compare the course catalogs. Classes with TAs are not bad if you are a future grad student yourself. Large classes have their advantages - like the ability to arrive late or slip out early unnoticed - and if class discussions turns you off, you can avoid those. If you are from SoCal and plan to stay there, you will be building your social network - one that you may end up tapping into for the rest of your life. </p>
<p>I’m sure there are more pluses - SoCal nephew went to USC, had a great experience, and doesn’t regret it at all. (I could also argue the cons here, but that seems to be pretty well covered.)</p>
<p>Swarthmore – A top-notch (and rigorous) liberal arts college with 1500 students located in a small town.</p>
<p>USC – A large research university (also home to numerous professional programs) with 36,000 students (undergrad and grad) located 3 miles south of downtown Los Angeles.</p>
<p>Thanks everyone! I appreciate all of your opinions. I will be committing to USC. I just have a gut feeling that I belong there and I would thrive there. I also plan on entering with a sophomore-class standing and double majoring.</p>
<p>id go with swarthmore. although id probably agree that usc has bigger alumni network. but Swarthmore i think has a more unique experience to offer and its a great school.</p>
<p>Thanks djking. After weeks pf comparing the two, I thought I’d go with my gut on this one and I really don’t think I’d regret this decision. It feels pretty surreal though-- deciding where I’m going to college.</p>
<p>This is one of those cases where it makes no sense bothering to apply to a certain college. For one, I never understood how a student can like - equally - two schools that are so drastically different. It’s one thing to like a research university and a small LAC - which is an odd enough pairing. But USC is a different beast: it’s the second largest private university in the country.</p>
<p>The general rule of thumb is that if you’re considering two schools, A and B, and A is more selective than B, but you prefer B over A, then you shouldn’t bother applying to A. In other words, if you get into Swarthmore, you’ll get into USC, and since you obviously prefer the latter despite it being more expensive, there was no sense in applying to Swarthmore. So because of poor reflection before applying, there’s one fewer spot at Swarthmore that could have gone to someone who genuinely wanted to go there.</p>
<p>I’m the last person who would be defending a LAC, but this has to be the most senseless “X College vs. Y College” thread I’ve seen in my time on CC. It’s precisely because students just throw in applications *wherever *that elite college admissions are so uncertain. Poor reflection —> college admissions mania.</p>
<p>Poor reflection? Senseless? Sorry that my situation bothered you so much that you had to put in your two cents. </p>
<p>For one thing, I’m not a typical college applicant. The connection between USC and Swarthmore for me was that they were both QuestBridge partners–meaning that they are both institutions that give generous need-based aid for low-income students, which is what I am. I never thought I would have the luxury of choosing between liberal arts colleges vs research universities, because frankly it was never discussed in my home that I would even attend college. When I told my parents I had gotten into Swarthmore they didn’t even know what it was. I simply applied to both because I know that they are both excellent schools and they both waived my application fees. I didn’t apply to any school which didn’t. </p>
<p>There are aspects of Swarthmore that I really like and that USC lacks and vice versa. “General rule of thumb” doesn’t make a huge difference since the selectivity rates this year between both schools were 14% and 18%. Saying that I would’ve gotten into USC if I have gotten into Swarthmore isn’t at all true. I honestly didn’t expect to get into either school. </p>
<p>It wasn’t poor reflection because I no doubt would have excelled and been happy at Swarthmore. It’s not like I applied and didn’t consider going at all. I just intuitively feel that I would thrive and be even happier at USC.</p>
<p>Congratulations Atelophobia! You should be proud of yourself on having 2 great choices, and for reasoning out what will work best for you. As to the rude detractors on this thread, just ignore them. </p>
<p>Many parents can totally understand how a 17-YEAR-OLD could be interested in both a large private research university on the West Coast and a small, intellectual LAC on the East Coast because we see it with our own children, and it is not senseless at all. There are aspects of both that can be very attractive to a teenager. Heck, you don’t even need to be a teenager to see yourself at either. I think that if both interested you in October when you were applying through Questbridge, it was wonderful that you had the two different schools to choose from when you are 6 months older, in which time you could have changed quite a bit. </p>