Swarthmore vs Vanderbilt

Colleges and Universities A-Z Swarthmore College
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<p>I have been accepted to Swarthmore and Vanderbilt University, and can't decide where to go. I want to study engineering, probably leaning more towards mechanical or electrical, but am not really sure. I would probably be studying economics as well, might try for a minor if things go my way. Also, I have my mind pretty much set on graduate school right after undergrad, but obviously I can't say for sure that it's what I'll want fours years from now. </p>

<p>Both have given me similar financial aid packages, so money's not an issue. </p>

<p>So, help me decide. I'm an international student, so can't visit.</p>

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<p>These schools are so different that it’s hard to know what to tell you. Swarthmore is a small, 1,500 student ultra-intellectual Liberal Arts College located on a beautiful campus in a suburb of Philadelphia. Vanderbilt is a southern medium-sized terrific research university with Division 1 athletics. Vanderbilt has a separate music school as well as a separate education school, besides the school of arts and sciences. Swarthmore is one of the only small schools with an engineering major, but you just get a BS in Engineering. You don’t study a specific subfield. You would go to graduate school in engineering to specialize. I don’t know what else to tell you. Have you thoroughly gone through the web sites of each school, reading students blogs and as much as you possibly can about each school? These are REALLY different schools.</p>

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<p>I know that these two schools are extremely different. This is actually making things harder for me, because I cannot compare these two properly. It is not possible to choose one category, and see which one is better in that. I am probably a cross between the stereotypical Vandy kid and the stereotypical Swarthmore kid, only a little less bright.</p>

<p>I would love the student-teacher interaction at Swarthmore, but I wouldn’t mind big lectures either. The course load, reportedly, is much harder at Swarthmore. I don’t mind that. I like studying. Actually, I like it a lot. But, I don’t think I’ll study any less if I went to Vandy. I like sports, but I don’t think I’d die without college sports. My mind would always be busy with the travails of my european soccer clubs. I like both their campuses; one’s like Hogsmeade while the other is a cool modern campus. I don’t know why I should care about a separate music school or a separate school of arts and sciences.</p>

<p>And you can specialize in MechE or EEE in Swarthmore. You just don’t get a specialized degree. Also, about the chance to study more subjects at swarthmore, due to less engineering requirements…I think I would still study those things if I went to Vanderbilt, be it in class or outside, or after graduation. My education should not be limited by what my college offers or doesn’t offer.</p>

<p>On the other hand, the engineering experience does matter a lot. Swarthmore requires 12/32 courses to be in engineering. I’m not sure if this is enough. I have no experience in this yet. Also, I’m not sure how much a general engineering degree would help. I have no experience in that either. I cannot find any year-by-year analysis of where Swarthmore graduates with an engineering degree went, but through the general descriptions, it sounds as if they do fine in terms of going to top graduate schools. However it is hard to ascertain much from the data provided. Maybe more opted for grad school because they thought the education was not enough? Perhaps the acceptance rate for Swarthmore kids at Stanford, MIT and others was not significantly greater than for those from its peer schools. I don’t have anything to support or refute these claims. Also there were talks in these forums some years back i think about how the engineering dept was underfunded. Although there was a huge investment recently, I am not sure if I will experience the good stuff, or how soon I will experience them.</p>

<p>I had a post months back about swarthmore’s engineering, so I guess I have been thinking about different kinds of engineering programs for some time. I’m still not sure which is the best for me.</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/swarthmore/1360219-swathmore-right-place-me-prospective-engineer.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/swarthmore/1360219-swathmore-right-place-me-prospective-engineer.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>My priority is, as you can probably guess, the engineering experience, and the MechE degree vs the general engineering degree thing. Also, Swarthmore’s culture is a little intimidating. So, I’m leaning towards that I think. :slight_smile: </p>

<p>this is already a huge post, so I’ll stop here…if you’re still reading.</p>

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<p>Daughter went to Swat and loved it! It is a very cerebral place and very liberal politically.
The kids were mostly genuinely kind and curious people who were kind of geeky, bookish and accepting. It is eastern, near Philly and not far from NYC or DC. and has a liberal east coast vibe. If you like to study, do not be intimidated. The faculty is there for the students and they take office hours very seriously. These are kids who “grow up” to be phd students and then professors with a fare share of doctors and lawyers. There is also tremendous one on one mentoring if you need it, its a very supportive environment.<br>
Vandy is in the South which has a completely different cultural history and vibe; it is much larger and more frat oriented.</p>

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<p>@Theunforgiven, Seems to me if the engineering experience is your priority then maybe Vanderbilt with the more expanded engineering options might be the place for you. Though your comment about the culture at Swat being intimidating is a bit curious. Swat is a place where the learning process is embraced by all. Probably a bit more than at Vanderbilt. Being international, I would suggest you try to connect into that group at Vanderbilt and see their experience.</p>

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<p>They are both great schools. It has been said before, but the cultural differences are very real. Vandy is a Southern school, with a pretty serious southern culture. The fraternity/ sorority scene there is serious, and serious in a southern way. I am not sure if this would a similar cultural adjustment for an international student as a non-southern school, but it is something to keep in mind.</p>

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<p>I’ve been impressed with the Swarthmore Career Services site. Check it out here (the parents and prospective students part):</p>

<p>[Swarthmore</a> Graduate Outcomes :: Career Services :: Swarthmore College](<a href=“http://www.swarthmore.edu/student-life/career-services/for-families-and-prospective-students/swarthmore-graduate-outcomes.xml]Swarthmore”>http://www.swarthmore.edu/student-life/career-services/for-families-and-prospective-students/swarthmore-graduate-outcomes.xml)</p>

<p>You will see a link to a pdf file which shows every single outcome for graduates between 2004-2012 including the engineering graduates.</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

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<p>The document on the linked page of post graduate plans by major <a href=“http://www.swarthmore.edu/Documents/administration/careerservices/Post-Graduation%20Plans%20by%20Major%202004-2012(0).pdf[/url]”>http://www.swarthmore.edu/Documents/administration/careerservices/Post-Graduation%20Plans%20by%20Major%202004-2012(0).pdf&lt;/a&gt; is indeed a useful document, but I think it is fair to say that it doesn’t include every single outcome - as some number of graduating seniors don’t participate in the survey.</p>

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<p>I didn’t participate (guilty face). Also, it doesn’t tell you what people are doing a few years after graduation which is perhaps more telling (especially since so many people go to grad school). One way of getting an idea of what people are up to is by reading the alumni notes in the college bullatin… there are really a wide variety of paths that people take, and reading about the choices my classmates have made is quite fun and inspiring.</p>

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<p>Yes, dadx3, you are correct. Should have taken the time to edit my entry more carefully.</p>

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<p>My first, quick thought: you will be happy in either place. There is no bad outcome here. There are two good outcomes.<br>
I don’t quite understand your concern about Swat only requiring 12/32 courses being in engineering and that being a problem…couldn’t you just take more if you wanted? Who cares about anyone else?
Finally (and here I’m revealing my small school bias), if you feel you would be comfortable in either setting, and if you see advantages in both the 7,000-student and the 1500-student experiences, and you plan to go to grad school, why not choose Swarthmore? Your grad school will almost surely be of the large research university variety.
Good luck! May all your life choices be similarly no-lose :)</p>

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<p>My son is a senior at Vandy on a merit scholarship. He had to turn down his admission to Swarthmore because of merit money basically. Vanderbilt has been very generous to him and he has received excellent internships and cultural offerings in Nashville.</p>

<p>That aside, if you are an international student, I have to tell you that Swarthmore can give you things that Vanderbilt cannot provide in personal mentorship, personal classrooms and a very respectful community. My Vandy son is a non Greek and he really dislikes the divisive Greek scene. He was better suited to the LAC culture at Swarthmore although he has been valiant, grown up, been tested, contributed a lot and gained a lot at Vandy. He doesn’t care about Division One sports but he is out at cultural events all the time on campus and in Nashville. His majors are in social sciences and we like to think that Vandy’s culture has better prepared him for the wide world. He grew up in a peaceful smaller city however. If he had been from a big place or been bilingual, I don’t think that going to a school of 6000 people would have been an asset particularly for him. For him, Nashville and Vandy have offered social stretches and challenges he might have needed before grad school. </p>

<p>If you are bilingual and used to the faster paced world, do yourself a favor and give your heart to Swarthmore. Swat is a wonderful institution with historic resonance in American history and certainly in American letters. Graduate schools of engineering will be very glad to have you after Swat. Even if you give up engineering, Swarthmore has tremendous financial reserves and they do commit to their students’ academic dreams and goals. </p>

<p>The chance for a personal education at one of America’s top three liberal arts colleges only comes around once in a lifetime. You can always go to graduate school at a wonderful research institution like Vanderbilt and its peers…Duke, Northwestern, Washington University if you are lucky. In fact it is likely that graduate school in engineering will be at a bigger place no matter what. </p>

<p>I know a Swat administrator very well…grew up with him. And I spent a good bit of time at Swarthmore. Also, I really like the Middle Atlantic states and the Chesapeake region near Philly. A cradle of American society right there. </p>

<p>I object to those posters who characterize Vanderbilt as a southern institution now. That is “No More.” Vanderbilt is a national institution in a decidedly southern city…and a very hospitable city at that. I really love Nashville and have lived there twice. Spouse has a Vandy grad degree.</p>

<p>Nevertheless, believe me when I tell you that Swarthmore will give you a home base like no other from which to launch your future life. </p>

<p>Financially, we could not turn down our son’s full merit offer to Vandy, and I am well aware of Vandy’s best assets. </p>

<p>To be able to go to Swarthmore with their excellent need aid support is the chance of a lifetime. Take it.</p>

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<p>My statement that Vandy is southern is mostly based on one good friend who rushed a sorority there, and her experience compared to friends who rushed at other (non Southern) schools. Her experience was that the codes of sorority life at vandy (40% of vandy students go greek, so that is a large part of undergrad life) are very much tied in with the south, and southern culture. My friend ended up transferring somewhere up north and rushing there…</p>

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<p>I totally agree with Faline2.</p>

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<p>hellohowareyou, 60% of males at Vandy do not spend time on Greek Row and do not rush or pledge. For females, 50% pledge and I would concede that the traditions are very multi generational and can feel southern in some cases but the girls that come to Vandy are no longer Regional SEC type girls…they are from all over the nation. </p>

<p>The culture at Vandy is shifting greatly and the current student body does not really look like the alum. Even so, my son would have preferred a student body without Greek life for his formative years. Swarthmore has a different culture entirely. Upperclassmen and women live in close proximity to newer students and mentoring goes on in the residential dorms of a different kind than at a big Division One college. Vandy is shifting to Residential College model but that will not all be done in time for this student, the OP.</p>

<p>My small town son enjoys the rambly urban/suburban location of Vanderbilt, enjoys the access to a large city so close to campus and he feels stimulated by the 6000 graduate students on campus and by the 6000 students at Vandy from all over the world…it feels very fluid and you do have more opportunities at a bigger college for bigger bolder activities. I even think being more anonymous feels good to our small town son who grew up on a fish bowl town. </p>

<p>But we think the Swarthmore campus is truly awesome. It feels expansive, cohesive…I really like the newer renos and the old campus as well. Philadelphia and the trains to NYC offer a mainline into US Big East cultural institutions. Swarthmore grads certainly have a lot of credibility in graduate schools and that is an understatement.</p>

<p>It feels so historic and yet also modern. The classrooms are so intimate and the students are all passionate learners. I recall that Swarthmore students can opt for an honors degree…not so much for status but for the opportunity for Swat to underwrite a major undertaking in your Department as an upperclassman. Swat really gets behind what a student can envision.</p>

<p>My son graduates this year, and although we will be grateful and happy, we know that when you give up the chance for a top liberal arts community from the ages of 18-22, you really never get that kind of chance again in life. Graduate education is a whole new ballgame.</p>

<p>good luck.</p>

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<p>Faline,
Thank you for your detailed and well-reasoned post. My knowledge of Vanderbilt comes from 3 sources. A close friend spent over a decade there very high up in the administration. My niece recently graduated. I toured Vandy when my son was considering it. (He chose to attend Swarthmore.) My niece, not from the south, joined a sorority and enjoyed the “dress up” culture at Vandy. My son, her cousin, was turned off by the “vibe.”
I don’t know how to advise the OP since the schools are so different and he can’t visit. Many people like a school model where all the freshmen live together-Vandy and others prefer the Swarthmore model where the classes are mixed in the dorms and upperclass students become informal advisors to the freshmen.</p>

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<p>momof3sons, I think we used to post together back in the day. I hope your child’s years at Swarthmore were golden. And I know they were.</p>

<p>the OP can consider our thoughts and some of the things we post about each school. One thing I feel about Swarthmore and smaller colleges is that if you are from afar, you have a good shot at creating a second family for yourself at a fine liberal arts college. This can be invaluable as you face the travails of your 20s.</p>

<p>Our Duke son relies heavily on his Duke network in a city with a high number of Duke grads for a second family of people to consult and people who care. But we also “gave up” the extensive networking you get by attending a flagship state college like Va Tech and UVA in our state. Our sons attended Duke and Vandy and the grads will scatter to the four winds. Our UVA family friends have hundreds of fellow grads working in DC and Northern VA. </p>

<p>If I was an international student, I would seriously want the support that professors can offer in a liberal arts college. A huge number of Swat grads get doctorates and many find pathways where costs are underwritten. Engineering schools and for that matter…corporations are looking for people with social skills and abstract thinking. </p>

<p>Good luck, OP! nice problem to have–the choice.</p>

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<p>Faline,
Thank you. They were indeed, golden, so much so that one of his younger brothers also chose Swat and is currently a junior there. (it was this younger sibling who had looked at Vandy, which I thought was a FABULOUS school.) I think I understand the point you are making about “national” universities such as Duke and Vanderbilt. Since they are drawing students from all over the country, those students are likely to graduate and settle into grad school or employment all over the country.</p>

<p>OP, good luck with your decision and please come back and let us know what it is.</p>

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<p>OP–Have you seen Swat’s engineering dept mission statement?</p>

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<p>My son graduated from Swat with a concentration in civil engineering a few years ago, and this statement reflects his experience pretty well, especially the “deep sense of ethical and social concern” and teaching “the skills to adapt to new technical challenges, communicat effectively, and collaborate well with others.”</p>

<p>Small class sizes mean you have to speak up and defend your ideas beginning in freshman fall, whether it’s in a science or a philosophy course. You learn to write by writing all the time. And every senior presents their final project orally to the entire engineering faculty and students.</p>

<p>The numbers of engineers at Swat is small. Each class starts out around 30 but by graduation that number can be halved, as people switch to physics math,etc. So you will know every engineering prof and every engineering prof will come to know you–no hiding!</p>

<p>Swat is part of a consortium with Bryn Mawr and Haverford Colleges–DS took a couple of courses at Bryn Mawr, which he really enjoyed. You can also take courses at Penn A&S and Penn Engineering (tho not at Wharton), if they are unavailable in the consortium.</p>

<p>Swat’s engineering program is ABET-acredited, which is the key thing you need. Some students are able to pass the FE exam while still at Swat. (FE = Fundamentals of Engineering, the first step in state licensure.)</p>

<p>My son was interested in a particular subfield of civil engineering, so he went to a major research university to get an MS after Swat. He’s now working as an engineer at a major engineering consulting company. He finds he’s doing a lot more writing that he expected, and Swat prepared him well for that too.</p>

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<p>I do wish my parents knew what Swarthmore was before I told them I got accepted. It’d make decision making a little easier.</p>