@momneeds2no, have you ever tried to survive on unemployment benefits? Do you know how much they are?
They are contractually obligated to give those scholarships to students attending their school. I suspect there would be issues with just giving the students money straight up, or paying it out to another institution. They are in no way obligated to give money to students attending other institutions, although it would be nice if they could find a way to do that. They may, however, have contractual obligations to their employees for severance, benefits, etc. Those are legally binding.
Yes I’ve collected UEI. I also found another job. No I have no idea about the UEI rate in VA . I feel for the staff. The faculty and execs, not so much. A grad rate of 57% speeks volumes.
@inparent. I’m not so sure about that. I think most scholarships have wording like “continued good standing” etc. I don’t know any with clauses outlining what happens if the college is no longer “in good standing”.
I’ve seen this house go down at corps and been totally shocked by who’s left standing after the rumble clears. I wonder how it shakes out at nonprofit. Especially a nonprofit with an emotionally invested donor base.
SoapyMango posted this link, earlier today, in post # 196. The writer did a good job of researching what may happen with the endowment.
Look as alumni we get newsletters and frequent mailings as well as glossy brochures. I lead a very busy life and no I didn’t see all the articles referenced above. In hindsight sure I could’ve googled and read more thru the years about my alma mater, but if the materials I get from the school paint a rosy picture why would I suspect anything wrong and why would I need to dig? I take them for their word that what they are reporting is true.
Sure now it’s easy to dig up troubles isn’t it? I guess graduates of other LACs, in particular small and other women’s’ colleges dig away! Oh right, you don’t need to. Most of your colleges have posted reassuring news on your college websites with figures, facts and data in response to our goat screw over at SBC.
Love all the Monday morning quarterbacking on here.
It mainly speaks about where its admission selectivity is. SBC’s 6 year graduation rate is roughly similar to that of the University of Mississippi, whose frosh class high school stats are roughly similar (although the University of Mississippi has a significantly lower 4 year graduation rate, but significantly higher frosh-soph retention rate).
Perhaps if anyone here has enough money to endow a scholarship at a specific school, it may be worth considering writing conditions about what happens of the school closes (or ceases offering a particular academic program if the scholarship is associated with such or is merged into or acquired by another college).
@ucbalumnus while u of miss and SBC have similar stats (adm ang grad). That where the comparison ends. State schools have lower grad rates for many reasons due to the population base (ie students working full time, etc) conversely SBC is a residential LAC with very high student : faculty ratio. 57% not good. what else were these folk doing? Enrollment was at 60%. 100% of classes had less than 20 students. The campus is isolated. The teachers couldnt keep the captive audience engaged and learning?
@momneeds2no wrote: “I understand that contractually some employees faculty and staff will receive buyouts. But honestly I don’t understand the obligation to provide cushions. After all these folks will all recive unemployment. They should be capable of seeking employment elsewhere.” [emphasis added]
For the faculty, this is technically correct but actually wrong. I mentioned it earlier in the thread, but faculty hiring runs on an annual calendar, and it’s over for the year. The faculty who are losing their jobs at SBC are completely and utterly shut out of the tenure-track job market until fall 2016 at the earliest (yes, more than a year from now), for jobs that will be posted, depending on the field, this coming August through November.
Also, you’re wrong about graduation rates—a graduation rate of 57% isn’t out of line for relatively non-selective schools, especially one with inputs like SBC’s had become. Seriously, look at their predicted graduation rate, given the stats of their incoming classes, and you’ll see that they were pretty much there. Beyond that, remember that those who transfer out count as non-graduates, even if they earn their degree at the school they transferred to; similarly, if anyone transferred into SBC and graduated they don’t count toward SBC’s graduation rate, either. Basically, you’re trying to blame the faculty for stuff that was not entirely but overall pretty close to beyond their control, at least if they wanted to avoid becoming a diploma mill.
The school has no contractual obligation to the students for future years. The merit awards are year to year, and all dependent on the student being a student at SBC. If you look at any merit award, it will say it is the ‘intention of the school’ to continue to award $xxx over the course of years’ but no guarantees. Even the employees with tenure are entitled to nothing IF the school/entity doesn’t exist. Who are the students/faculty/staff going to sue? The winding down of a business is regulated. It’s the area I practice in, and there is very rarely anything left for the unsecured claims. All the secured debt will be paid first, then the unsecured, any other obligations. Even unused vacation pay is an unsecured debt. There will be nothing left to give as merit aid to current students.
I think a good chunk of money is going to have to go to whichever school decides to be the custodian of records. It’s a big job and it costs money. For the next 20-30 years, women are going to need their records so whatever system is set up will have to be maintained.
Professors who are mid 60’s and older will probably retire. Younger professors will have to be flexible and go anywhere there are jobs. It’s the 55-65 group that gets hit hard. It would be nice for the staff if the facilities are used for an educational purpose, like a boarding school or camp, but that too will take time to get established. It will just be hard for locals to find employment in the area.
Kinda the chicken and the egg. If SBC improved grad rates , then more qualified candidates enroll, the job of the college is to graduate students. Period. When a college only has 57% success rate. How can one call it job well done? Under estimating the roll of the profs is a critical mistake. I read something like 350 faculty for 540 students. For crying out loud that’s basically private tutoring. Why were they graduating more students? Even a low stat student should be able to hack it with support. Where the profs above sitting and really helping these girls?
More than the rural location, the single gender focus or the lac curriculum, perhaps the Monday morning qb should focus on why only 3 out of five girls graduate. Theres a lesson for college presidents…
@twoinanddone since this is area of expertise, how often do you see a nom-profit with a debt to assest ratio of 1 : 5 fold up shop?
A graduation rate of 57% is actually pretty good - many people are surprised to hear the norm for colleges is below 50%.
Ole Miss is the state’s flagship and its 4-year graduation rate is 36%.
In Virginia, universities similar to SBC, such as Hollins, Mary Baldwin, or Emory/Henry, have respective graduation rates of 56%, 47%, and 33%.
At rural colleges, this is often due to students transferring out to less rural locations (graduation rates only look at the freshman cohort, those who transfer out are “subtracted” from the total) rather than students “dropping out” because of work commitments or course rigor.
(In short, the students weren’t leaving because they “couldn’t hack it” and/or “no one was sitting and helping”, but because they wanted boys, the city, etc.)
Faculty are highly trained individuals whose skills (research) need to be constantly practiced (sort of like surgeons). They’re completely shut out of ANY job in their branch of work for 18 months. How do you think a surgeon would do after 18 months without surgery? They’ll need to keep up research output without the means to do so, and those typically would preclude a typical job (as keeping up with a typical job would make finding a position in their field impossible), although they’ll likely take one and thus limit their actual job prospects - in all likelihood, as faculty are often couples, one will keep up with research and one will “look for something” until the house sells, even if this is a area that doesn’t have much, which is why it was a tough sell to students in the first place. They’ll also lose their house, whose value was linked to the college’s. However, tenure-track jobs are fast disappearing. It means that all faculty not only lost their job, but may never find another one. (And from experience, I know that a person whose job is to think and create and does that 24/7 is a BAD fit in any job that does not require thinking so that closes many jobs that are readily available.) As for the staff… this is a rural area. People may have lost their entire family’s livelihood - what would have amounted to their kids’ college funds (because staff kids often can attend at a very low price), both parents’ jobs, their house. It’s an area where there are NO jobs. What do you think they can do? Sell a house that has lost much of its value? They probably have to wait till the estate is bought and the house can be appraised. What will they live on till then?
Keep in mind that in many cases, parents both worked there (as there are basically no other jobs around). So the entire family’s lost its livelihood.
BTW, I do think that a company’s primary responsibility is to its employees, and its reason to be is to generate research/development/production, not shares for shareholders. Shareholders should receive their just rewards for taking a risk, but that shouldn’t be the company’s primary focus, and that just reward should not be “unreasonable” to the point it goes against research/development/production as well as salaries and employment.
I agree. Just think of the many staff positions it takes to run a school. The cafeteria workers. The maintenance staff. Etc. They are the ones to feel sorriest for.
Yes, but the school had less than 600 students and three hundred employees. Clearly that’s an unsustainable model. There really shouldn’t have to be an employee for every two students. Something is wrong there.
Thinking more about this. We visited for an Open Campus in Fall 2014, and I remember being struck by the huge parade of Admissions Advisors who trailed across the stage. At least ten admissions counselors, plus a Head of Admissions, all to recruit about 150 students per year? In other words, there were employees who recruited 15 students per year? They got 900 applications and they had 10 people reading them? Someone’s job might consist of recruiting 15 students and reading 900 applications. That works out to one student per month or so, and maybe three applications a day, max – assuming all counselors read all applications. A school that was concerned about money probably shouldn’t have had so many idle, underemployed staff.
^^^All that suggests that maybe they should have closed up shop several years ago. You can’t get blood from a stone no matter how many admissions staff you hire.
And, as expected, this decision has forced a lot of discussion within other teetering institutions:
(I wonder if Fiske Guide relies on DOE ratings when determining who ends up in their annual directory?)
@MYOS1634 57% is their SIX year graduation rate according to their website.