<p>The Panthers hosted a multi-team swim meet this past weekend, but weren't allowed to swim: "the host team suspended by their administration for an unspecified violation of team rules."</p>
<p>Will the men's and women's swim teams be allowed to compete in the NESCAC championship meets to be held later this month?</p>
<p>Heard about it today from S who swims for another NESCAC school and says it’s the talk of the NESCAC swim world. Sounds like a pretty serious hazing incident primarily involving the women’s team. Don’t know what the consequences will be but since the men’s team was suspended in 2006 and the message doesn’t seem to have gotten through, it might be hard not to treat it seriously.</p>
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<p>A rush to judgment…There was no message to get through. The men swimmers charged with hazing were found innocent by the Midd judicial review board.</p>
<p>OK, I’m sure the team was suspended from championships in 2006 for no reason at all. If so, I assume the coach was fired. Undoubtedly the swim teams are once again being victimized by those ogres in administration who love nothing more than to publicize every tiny, little infraction so their college can get a big, public black eye.</p>
<p>I wonder if this time it involved both the Panther men’s <em>and</em> women’s swim teams since both were not allowed to swim last weekend. It would be doubly disappointing if, as in the case of the men’s team five years ago, all that the male and female swimmers have worked toward since last fall comes to naught.</p>
<p>Men-allowed to swim at NESCACs. Freshman women allowed to swim at NESCACs. Both teams were suspended while the investigation took place. What a nightmare for everyone involved, my heart goes out to them.
The coach is a prince, and he isn’t the kind of coach that supports an atmosphere where hazing is tolerated. I think that this incident would NOT be taken seriously at many other schools, and it is more a reflection of the strictness and seriousness of the Midd administration than a “team out of control”.
Take notice, and don’t have group activities that might make people feel intimidated or uncomfortable if you are representing a team.</p>
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<p>Excellent post OBD. Peter Solomon, Middlebury’s swim coach, is beloved by students and admired and highly respected by the NESCAC Coaches Association. Peter has been awarded NESCAC Division 111 coach of the year [seven] times. I know of no of other NESCAC swim coach who has an equally illustrious record.</p>
<p>My son is one of their top recruits for regular decision - we are VERY concerned about this - is there an atmosphere with the kids that hazing is OK? He was there for a recruit weekend and LOVED everything, but now is concerned…</p>
<p>Glad it’s been sorted out. Good advice, ObD. </p>
<p>CD: The Williams swim coach has been named NESCAC coach of the year nine times (out of a possible 20) – six for women’s and three for men’s:</p>
<p>“NESCAC [Women’s] Swimming Coach of the Year honors went to Steven Kuster of Williams for the sixth time”</p>
<p>[New</a> England Small College Athletic Conference](<a href=“http://www.nescac.com/sports/swimdive/2009-10/honors/allconference_w]New”>http://www.nescac.com/sports/swimdive/2009-10/honors/allconference_w)</p>
<p>“Kuster was named NESCAC [Men’s] Coach of the Year in 2002, 2007, and 2009.”</p>
<p>[url=<a href=“http://williams.prestosports.com/sports/mswimdive/History/History]Williams[/url”>http://williams.prestosports.com/sports/mswimdive/History/History]Williams[/url</a>]</p>
<p>So if Coach Solomon has been given the title seven times, there have been only four other opportunities for other NESCAC coaches to be named coach of the year.</p>
<p>OldbatesieDoc has all the facts, this is not a ‘team out of control’, but one which made a bad decision; Middlebury Admin is taking a strict line on an initiation prank that was in poor taste - nothing remotely life threatening.
@andioleary- If your son loved his recruit weekend - do not worry. There are lots of great student athletes on this team.
p.s. Crew Dad know that Coach Peter Solomon has been nominate numerous times by his peers for his coaching excellence</p>
<p>@OldBatesie: with all due respect — after what appears to be four days of deliberations, interviews with many swimmers (word on campus is close to 40 were interviewed), there had to be reasons to what the Midd admin did. You can’t sit on these boards claiming something about which you were not privy (unless your son or daughter reported what he or she learned in a long meeting with the Dean and Coach Solomon yesterday). With Vermont’s strict hazing laws (just upgraded July 1, by the way), no college in the state can take hazing lightly, even if it is not life-threatening. We remember the UVM hockey case 12 or so years ago. </p>
<p>All this said, the swimmers are a fantastic group and Coach Solomon is A++. But we should not pre-judge or dismiss hazing activities, even if they were not life-threatening. Hazing policies are not (only) to prevent death; they are to prevent humiliation, which, whatever was done by the team, rose beyond that level for first-year students.</p>
<p>Knowing Coach Solomon as I do, and the program as I do, I would send all my kids to Midd to swim (if they get admitted). He is terrific, the team atmosphere (sans this stupid, really stupid event) is terrific, and the school is remarkable.</p>
<p>Sounds like a thorough investigation and a reasonable resolution. The idea that this would not be taken seriously at many other schools is ludicrous–at least among NESCAC schools. It was not a minor incident if reports I’ve heard from those who were involved are even half right. If I were the parent of a freshman girl or recruit I’d have some concerns. This kind of stuff is just not tolerated today and it’s not just about Vermont with its strict laws or Middlebury and its high standards. It’s incredible that anyone smart enough to get into a college like this hasn’t gotten the memo. Most high school athletes know better these days.</p>
<p>When I say I’d have concerns, by the way, I don’t mean I’d write off the program. Would just want a frank discussion with the coach about the issue, atmosphere on the team, and how he’ll work to really change it, since this is not the first incident. </p>
<p>See link, especially Cadillac Jack post:
[d3swimming.com</a> • View topic - Feb 4-6 Meets](<a href=“http://d3swimming.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5635&p=59127]d3swimming.com”>http://d3swimming.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5635&p=59127). </p>
<p>That said, it’s a great program and great college. But some posters may be a bit too quick to deny the culture that had led to this kind of behavior.</p>
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<p>Peter has won 7 out of 14 years possible…50 percent/years coaching. Williams coach… 45 percent. Just having fun onemoremom. :)</p>
<p>I would have serious concerns about sending a swimmer to a program where the team gets suspended with this frequency. Especially with the same coach remaining at the helm, no matter how celebrated he is. Doesn’t the buck stop with the coach? And I have a hard time with group punishment in general, when it goes beyond some extra laps – was every girl upperclassman really at fault for whatever this undisclosed incident was? Did each one of them really deserve to lose the championship meet, for seniors the final meet of their career?</p>
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<p>Maybe these kids will learn an important lesson that they’ll carry with them throughout life–that actions have consequences. These kids most likely won’t have careers as professional swimmers, but they will learn a valuable lesson from this–treat others with respect and dignity no matter the situation. And I hope that future classes will think twice before deciding to haze their classmates (I have a gut feeling that they will). This stuff goes on all the time at other schools, but they usually sweep it under the rug. Kudos to Coach Solomon for doing the right thing. If my children were swimmers, I’d feel more comfortable sending them to Midd knowing that the college places a greater emphasis on character than it does on winning.</p>
<p>Aquaman51: anyone teammate present for hazing incidents shares in the wrongdoing and therefore the penalties levied. Being present and not stopping hazing violates hazing policies. There are varying levels of responsibility, sure, but if all members of a team take part in the hazing of teammates, all should be disciplined. That’s both the nature and effectiveness of hazing itself: it commands the cooperation of many–cooperation includes not stopping what is going on–which then means all share in the consequences.</p>
<p>It’s an unfortunate incident and I feel for the swimmers, especially the seniors, who will end their careers on a terrible note. Undoubtedly some were just hangers-on, who didn’t think up the brilliant idea, but didn’t extricate themselves soon enough, either. However, can we lose the puffed-up, pious “Only Middlebury would take this so seriously” foolishness? No reputable college tolerates this and few have had so many opportunities to prove it. The program has gotten a bad reputation the old fashioned way–they’ve earned it.</p>
<p>OOh sailfish, you sound bitter. They interviewed everyone on the team who was on campus.
I am certainly not a friend of hazing. But I know boys on swim teams in the IVYs who were put thru MUCH worse. But no one reported it. </p>
<p>The team is not a mean team. I think the reason the team has been in trouble is because the atmosphere encourages openness, and people feel able to report this kind of behavior. I’d like some honest reports from men and women saying they were on a team at such and such a school and did not have an initiation ritual.</p>
<p>I don’t think Midd is the only school that would take this as seriously. I’m sure Bates would.But I have first-hand contacts at several other schools that this would be considered a joke. A friend of mine who is a frat advisor at another top 50 LAC laughed and said at their school it would be swept under the rug, especially if it were a “helmet sport”</p>
<p>Last year the febs were supposed to take off their shirts and swing them around their heads at parties whenever the song “Like a Prayer” was played. Someone complained that this was sexual harassment, so now the song is forbidden at parties…</p>
<p>The administration wants everyone to feel comfortable. I think it is a great way to run a college. But parents/students shouldn’t worry that this incident shows some dark underbelly of Midd culture.
Sorry this is such a rambling post, I am trying to answer several different posters’ assertions.</p>
<p>I’m not bitter. I have no affiliation with Middlebury and don’t wish I did, even though Midd is a fine school with a beautiful campus. But lots of bad things that were tolerated in the past are not OK today and denial is not just a river in Egypt.</p>