I would put Bowdoin and Amherst in the same tier, but I am also not sure it matters – there are a lot of schools here that are tough to get into. Given that she has good backups, it really doesn’t matter if everything more competitive is appropriately ranked.
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I also wouldn’t differentiate between Cornell and Brown - is more that they are different animals.
They are all reaches (which is fine IMO if OP is happy with fall backs) I don’t get the need to differentiate levels of reachness.
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Same for Cornell.
Given the limit on applications, it might be in her best interest to swap this one out for another school due to the pre-read feedback.
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I don’t disagree, though the Cornell coach was open to the possibility for this swimmer. Ultimately she chose Brown and is very happy there.
Class 2027 international acceptance rate
UCB 5.2%
UCLA 6.1%
Class of 2027 overall acceptance rate
Amherst: 9% (2026 SAT 1450-1530)
Brown: 5.1% (2027 SAT 1510-1570)
Stanford: ??? 3-4% (2026 SAT 1500-1570)
Bowdoin 8% (2026 SAT 1340-1520)
Cornell: 9.73% (2026 SAT 1470-1550)
Tufts 9.5% (2026 SAT 1460-1540)
UVa: 16.3% (overall), 12.1% (OOS) (2026 SAT 1400-1540)
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Right! I thought the feedback from the AO’s office was not positive.
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and for girls, Brown’s acceptance rate is even lower! It was 3% last year for girls.
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I have some questions relevant to the OPs potential situation. Just curious if anyone knows the answers.
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How much more difficult is it to for an international applicant vs a domestic applicant to a highly rejective US university? Is there a rule of thumb approximate difference in admission rate?
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Are standardized test scores more important for an international application because AOs may have less familiarity with international secondary schools.
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Are international students mainly competing with each other for the same available spots or are their applications pooled with domestic applicants?
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This varies depending on circumstances. The last information I read regarding Wesleyan University, for example, showed that full pay international applicants were accepted at a rate greater than the general acceptance rate. However, in another example, which considers all international applicants in a single pool, Colgate accepted 2.7% of these students: First-Year Class Profile | Colgate University.
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[quote=“BUMD, post:2136, topic:3623592”]
- How much more difficult is it to be an international applicant vs a domestic applicant to a highly rejective US university? Is there a rule of thumb approximate difference in admission rate?
In general, it’s harder, but that is nuanced. It depends on the country. International students from certain countries will be disadvantaged if they need FA, but iirc, the OP plans to be FP. The school matters as well, and at some, major too. I don’t think there’s a rule of thumb.
Often, yes. The OP has her SL scores and a predicted IB score (but the AOs may not know how well predictions translate into reality) but would probably benefit from a good SAT/ACt score.
I believe mostly each other – but always in the context of creating a class, so if the school needed an oboe player, that would be in the mix. In this regard, had she liked a school recruiting her, she’d have taken a recruited athlete spot from a domestic student but would have filled a spot being “held” for a foreign stuent. So domestic swimmers and general good students from her country lose priority become of her.
Not sure this was the answers you were looking for!
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I was just thinking about this. Do you think it is extra competitive for an international student from Hong Kong or China? Are they basically in the same bucket and going head to head with the international students at BS (with which AOs are already familiar)?
Basic legacy isn’t even a hook at Stanford anymore. It’s a slight boost. Legacy combined with Development $$ is a hook.
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I thought that one of the purposes of IB was to give AOs a basis for comparison, that this student from Germany or Italy or Japan is doing the same (type?) of work as an American student in Brooklyn or LA.
D24: Time to buck up. Your parent says you badly want to swim varsity in college. You have two offers from highly selective schools. Either decide to pursue your passion, or admit swimming isn’t such a big deal to you after all. That’s OK to come to that conclusion, but be real about your passion - to yourself, your family, and coaches.
OP recently wrote, “Down to 2 offers. Whilst she was disappointed not to have 3 options, in the end she has 2 very good options.” (Emphasis is mine).
And in March OP said, “if she isn’t able to find a college team to swim for, she will certainly consider that a failure because it is a sport she loves and which forms an important part of who she is, as an athlete, a team member and team captain.”
Now after almost 2100 posts, and D24 receiving at least 2 offers from “reach schools with low admit rates for international students,” the reluctance to accept, and willingness to eschew recruiting, is due to concerns about “vibe?”
Vibe? How would one know from Zoom calls? What about the all-consuming “passion” for the sport? All of a sudden the non-recruitment list is back on the table, we are discussing Stanford and other micro-admit schools, and hypothesizing whether UVA is a match or a reach school (there is one clear answer here if you don’t live in Virginia).
I understand the vicissitudes of teens, but if it was my kid, they would be getting a proverbial swift kick-in-the-rear. Just wasting both coaches’ and parents’ time.
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we’re not in disagreement, but there are 2 kinds of decision makers, those driven by statistical evidence, and those driven by dreams. Her parents are driven by statistical facts. She could argue that any kid who goes to Harvard or Yale is motivated by his dream. Steve Jobs was a dreamer when he headed to India, just like Mark Zuckerberg or Bill Gates when they quit Harvard. And she has a point.
But …why is she giving up her passion for swimming competitively? Has she moved on? As said above that’s fine but it’s a huge decision. Or was swimming always a way in to rejective schools? I imagine you and she know the answers to this but I would def be double checking with her how she had got to this decision and consequences
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It is. The catch here is that she will only have actual scores in June/July 2024 for most subjects. For the SL classes she has already completed and tested, she’ll have scores, but that’s probably only 3 and would only account for roughly 21 of those points - the highest score possible on each test… (fwiw, it is much easier to get a 5 on an AP than a 7 on an IB. My kid’s school offered both, and lots of kids, including mine, took test under both regimes.) The 44/45 is predicted, so that essentially means getting 7s on all exams plus 2 bonus points. That score is only as good as the predictor. My kid went to an IB school and they did not provide predictions to colleges. The course finishes in May – how can anyone be sure of mastery of a year of material AND a top score on a test?
Sometimes schools (almost always not US institutions) make acceptances conditional on receiving a certain score. That’s a lot of pressure and a lot of heartache if a student misses by a point or two.
Also, students getting the IBD choose the courses for SL and HL. It’s like any high school diploma – it depends on the classes offered by the school and then taken by the student. So yes, it is standardized around the world (and may be taken in any numberof languages), but two students with the same score may have gotten there quite differently.
So yes, actual scores are comparable, but predicted scores are that.
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I guess I don’t understand the indecision here. As one moves through the recruiting process one is constantly recalibrating one’s decision based on new information coming in. For example, when school X, your first choice, says they are no longer recruiting you, school Y moves up to be your first choice. And if school Y, hasn’t made you an offer yet you wait until the coach gives an answer. And in all cases you are comparing your recruiting choices to scrapping recruiting and applying without the athletic hook.
So to me it defies reason that this athlete is undecided at this point. OP’s daughter has had months to compare the two offer schools with Mcgill. And months to consider if the two offer schools are worth giving up their nonswimming chances.
I have expressed skepticism of this thread in the past, and to me this is another bit of evidence that things do not add up.
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- How much more difficult is it to for an international applicant vs a domestic applicant to a highly rejective US university? Is there a rule of thumb approximate difference in admission rate?
general rule of thumb is that international acceptance rates are about half of the rate for U.S. citizens.
- Are standardized test scores more important for an international application because AOs may have less familiarity with international secondary schools.
I believe these are more important for some applicants as the standards for education abroad vary but the SAT and ACT don’t.
- Are international students mainly competing with each other for the same available spots or are their applications pooled with domestic applicants?
international student applicants are reviewed with others from their region. They are not usually reviewed with domestic applicants.
@skieurope how far off am I?
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