If this is true, the list looks like it was put together by the daughter from a “vibe” perspective, with the exception being McGill which has its statistical advantages.
Steve Jobs?
I don’t entirely understand NiVo’s point here. Most people don’t equate “Big Dreams” with college choice.
But if we are talking about dreamers in the context of Jobs and Gates - they were hyper genius iconoclasts, not conventional wisdom prestige seekers.
And Jobs, marching only to his own beat, packed up and went to Reed College. This is the kind of magic that can happen at ANY college, and has nothing to do with acceptance rates and SAT scores:
As everyone knows, Steve Jobs went to Reed, but didn’t graduate. (He may, in fact, be one of the most famous dropouts in history.) Nonetheless, Reed made a profound impression on him.
Questioning everything and everyone, Steve dropped out of Reed and then dropped back in, taking courses in calligraphy, dance, and Shakespeare that would prove invaluable in designing the revolutionary Apple Macintosh.
Find the full story of his time at Reed in his obituary in Reed Magazine, Visionary Technologist, Prodigal Son.
Steve’s 1991 convocation speech at Reed, Staying Hungry, offers a glimpse into how his threadbare days on campus shaped his philosophy.
Find out why Steve called legendary dean of students Prof. Jack Dudman ’42 “one of the heroes of my life.”
Did Steve really capture Reed’s unofficial mascot, the enigmatic Doyle Owl?
Take a look at Steve’s notorious application for a campus job—a classic example of how not to write a résumé.
Learn how calligraphy classes at Reed taught Steve to think like an artist.
Find out more about one of Steve’s closest friends at Reed, Prof. Richard Crandall ’69 [physics], who wrote several key algorithms for Apple, including one that led to the discovery of gargantuan prime numbers.
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….and left after one semester.
To put the IB predicted score in perspective, 38-40 is Oxbridge-level. Reaching a 7 is exceptionally difficult - in terms of difficulty, I’d say that depending on the test an AP 5 would either be equivalent to an IB 5 or 6; some of the most competitive courses, such as PPE or CS, want a 39 with 1 7 and 2 6s, for instance. At the May 2023 session, only 8.5% students in the world reached a score of 40 (or higher).
A recruitable student-athlete with a 40+ (let alone several predicted 7s) probably has an 80%+ admission chance at any US college - cf. the latest Chetty report where I think they say 83% and up - so even taking into account the fact this is an international student, usual reservations don’t apply.
I’ll now go read the full thread of 2,200 posts for details.
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This was originally posted in July when this thread was just under 1500 posts.
Are we still talking about athletic recruiting or has that ship sailed?
Is this now just another chance me thread? The most recent list looks very similar the the list at the beginning.
Is environmental science still important or is that similarly discardable?
This list tell me there is a lot of low lying fruit that has yet to be considered.
Of course if vibe (really prestige) continues to be the main focus, we are really back to where we started over 2000 posts ago.
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What gives? You are saying her predicted score is extremely high and difficult to achieve, yet there are several students at her school who are stronger to the point they feel like she cannot compete. Is this an extremely selective high school?
I know some will disagree, but I still think someone who can get perfect scores across all AP or IB tests should be able to (and most will) and will be expected to have equally impressive SAT scores.
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Completely agree - I don’t think the list ever changed from the beginning, just used the guise of being a swimming recruit to hopefully get LL or coach support at those on the list, no real interest in actually swimming in college. I think the most important thing to remember is buried in this post is the OP stating they are ok with not getting any desirable admits and taking a gap year and reapplying and had friends/colleague that had done just that with desirable results.
This isn’t even a chance me thread because OP hasnt taking anything shared into account for the past 2,000+ posts and likely won’t now
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Is it time to rename this thread “International Family Targeting the Most Highly Selective Colleges - Daughter Happens to Swim”?
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I have this same question. And also with this extremely high and difficult to achieve predicted score should she not have easily passed all pre reads? I recall one coming back as not passed.
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I mean this is all so much fun, and years from now people on CC may talk about this thread and WE WERE HERE.
Worth pointing out that OP’s actual words were “44/45 expected IB scores” - not predicted, not (necessarily) by the school, etc. Expected by whom, exactly? The parent? The daughter? My mom expected I would be a neurosurgeon.
OP’s daughter isn’t the first student to hope that athletics assists her into admission at her definition of a highly prestigious school, realize during the process that isn’t going to happen, and then decide to go for it anyway (despite not having the credentials of other students at her school, plus other disadvantages), with a solid and appreciated backup. I haven’t seen that work out, and I really hope OP takes advantage of the sage advice in this thread most recently (Brown is 3% for girls early and being a FP family internationally is unlikely to be an advantage given current institutional priorities; applying to a school where the pre-read has already passed on you is a waste of an application slot; etc.).
One other fun tidbit - are you really considered FP if you’re dependent on grants from your country (because the school is T100 by some measure) in order to get there, which I think was something stated about 1900 posts ago, I’m not looking for those details now? [Edited: I found the post from April where the OP says the student is full pay, so I’m assuming that’s independent of a national grant.]
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YES WE WERE 
Rich people also enjoy free stuff.
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You don’t have to do that!
Summary:
OP’s D is a good swimmer, not top tier, but competitive enough to get some recruiting interest at some selective D3 schools. Attends a rigorous international school in an Asian country. Profile and current list around post #1917. Family is full pay, student is legacy at Stanford.
The D’s school limits students to 10 apps (UCs=1). D targeted highly rejective US schools because she has McGill and Toronto as safeties/highly likelies, where she would be happy to attend per parent. (swimming situation unclear there)
Meanwhile recruiting has been playing out in the typical time frame, albeit with a small set of selective schools rather than casting a wide net. Ok because of the safeties/likelies (at least per the parent). All of the thread has been filtered through the parent.
It seems the D may have a couple of coach offers, which she is weighing against McGill and/or Toronto. The offers are likely not from her top choice schools, so she is considering the final list potentially without a recruited athlete lens too.
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It’s important to note that D24 hasn’t made up your mind yet, so it’s somewhat premature to cast her as a teenager solely focused on super reach schools. The schools she secured offers from are high reach schools, and the only reason she’s thinking about her options is because she prefers other schools, not necessarily because they are more reachy, but because she visited all these schools and feels she prefers the vibe at couple other schools
For the sake of clarification, D24 has passed all her pre-reads, even though one coach subsequently conveyed that admission held her back, several weeks after passing pre-read. Our view is the hold back was due to swim times rather than academics.
Comments about D24 not loving swimming are probably misplaced when a teenager is committed to train on the pool deck as 5:20am four times a week. It’s not because she is seeking a school she likes more academically that she doesn’t love her sport
Of course, and she is smart to consider her options no matter what. I didn’t mean to infer that the schools with offers aren’t reaches, just that it seemed from your posts that they weren’t necessarily her top choices. No offense or misinterpretation intended.
Did she visit all three schools that made swim team offers? I don’t recall that has ever been confirmed on this thread.
As far as chancing, as numerous posters have stated, the schools on the list are all extreme long-shots. The competition will be other highly-motivated and qualified international students, many with better standardized test scores and more impressive ECs. They will have also likely added to those ECs this past summer doing something other than visiting coaches that ultimately weren’t interested in offering team spots, and going to swim meets that ultimately did not improve times and provide better recruiting chances.
Choices were made to pursue the athletic recruiting path. That’s an opportunity cost of a lot of time and energy spent in lieu of other things. That process apparently resulted in some success, but abandoning it now and entering the regular applicant pool (pun intended) would put the student at a disadvantage relative to her peers (AKA the competition).
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Putting blame on AOs when it’s not the case is a terrible look for the coach. IME coaches are upfront about times not being quite there and what they’d like to see.
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It’s highjacking,. The questions are valid, but please start your own thread. This thread is confusing enough with one OP.
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how do I delete?
This doesn’t prove a love of swimming. Half my family can attest to that. For further reference, read up on Michael Phelps’ training journey.