Swimming Recruiting for Int’l Jr. Targeting Highly Selective Colleges

Athletic Recruits
243

it’s clear and without argument that obtaining an NLI / LL after 1-Oct (Ivy, JHU,Chicago, etv) / full coach support (NESCAC etc) remains the gospel for college recruits, including swim recruits, a définite notch above soft recruits/walk-on status.

Since this decision falls first to the coach, and subsequently to AO, the how-to strategy is broadly clear:

  1. engage with the coach to gain his/her support (and indeed confirm that it’s clearly real, and means full support)

  2. if 1 is secured, deliver grades/course load/essays/SAT/ACT/TO necessary to satisfy admissions

  3. if 1-2 haven’t been secured, consider seeking admission to Canada’s Toronto/Mc Gill and swim in their team

  4. if 1-2-3 haven’t been secured, seek coach soft-support/walk-on status after admission to continue swimming in college

  5. if 1-2-3-4 haven’t been secured, seek REA/ED/RD admission to a college with the best fit, and consider swimming competitively at club level if it is of interest

Happy Hunting

244

NLI is for athletes who receive some form of athletic scholarship - for the most part it does not apply to the schools discussed in this thread.

This happens before the offer and a request for a pre-read does not mean an offer will come.

There is no luxury of step by step here. You have to apply ED/REA before you are accepted at other schools.

I am worried that this thread is going to be misleading to some. There is no such specific step by step to follow. Sure, the above might be a strategy you chose to follow but it doesn’t really apply to anyone else. You are well meaning in attempting to create a step by step guide to being recruited but that is simply not possible. More helpful will be for you do come back after you are done to share how it actually went so people can learn something from your experience.

12 Likes
245

of course no statement applies to 100% of athletes.

the step by step outlines a strategy that’s valid for 99% of swimmers who seek to swim competitively in US/Canadian universities, which is hopefully handy for current and futur HS swimmers

246

Nope. What Tony grace is saying is that these steps are out of order, and some of the process doesn’t allow itself to be jammed into a sequential concept. I agree that some of your posts, although seemingly well intentioned, might confuse and potentially mislead people.

#2, pre-read, comes before #1, the coach offering a spot. Coaches generally submit more pre-reads than they have slots.

#3, applying to other schools should happen concurrently. Every student athlete committed to a highly rejective should consider getting in an app or two in to a highly likely/safety where they might not play their sport. Schools with rolling admissions are especially good for this.

#4 the soft support concept may well come up during initial coach discussions and not every school offers this. Ditto PWO. Ditto regular walk on.

You are missing knowledge and a great deal of nuance of this process. Please wait until you have the experience of going thru this process at least once before sharing tips.

I have been thru this process with dozens of athletes and I don’t think any of their journeys looked like your sequential process.

14 Likes
247

I have to add to the “recruiting isn’t a formula”. Again I understand the urge to make it one because you have an individual timed sport kid. But take it from a team sport parent - this is a years long grueling process. Both my kids have been talking to coaches since sophomore year. Went to camps starting summer after freshman year. If you’re going d3 the current timeline means you may wait until fall of senior year to commit. That’s loooong! And coach decisions, as I’ve said, are sometimes inexplicable.

While an Ivy coach may suddenly gain interest it’s been my experience that by this time they have a fairly firm list of 24s they’re watching and aren’t adding to it barring some magical occurrence. Your daughter would know if she were on that list. From that list they hope to get their 2-3 kids. I suggest you move past feeling that coaches “should” be interested and focus on either schools where coaches are interested or applying without swimming and knowing your chance is slim to none.

12 Likes
248

I think your 99% figure is way off.

At the top swim schools, which may also be top schools like Cal, Stanford, Georgia, Florida, they may have 10 spots for freshman athletes and I’d say all of them are filled by the best swimmers available. They have been following them for years and the list is in place in Junior year. Then there is the next group of schools that you may be targeting (Ivies, other academic elites). They may have a few slots left, but not all, thus not 99% for high schools. Plus schools now have the transfer portal to deal with and there is no way to put that in your formula. Will the coach take 2 transfers rather than 3 freshman? Who knows.

Even the other D1 swim schools that are strong academically have filled some of their spots, so 99% of the athletes aren’t even looking and won’t be following your timeline.

I actually think your daughter is in a much more unique group. She’s a strong athlete and a strong student who hasn’t committed yet, and in fact hasn’t narrowed her list. You are doing what you can do at this point, but it isn’t what 99% of swimmers are doing.

You can only make a timeline for your own child. If she wants to swim, there are schools that will let her do that, and very successfully. If she’ll be happy going to a highly ranked school and not swim, that’s a different list.

I really think the ‘walk on’ element should be off the table. Don’t consider schools where she might be able to do that on the ‘swim’ list. It is a factor that just can’t be put into a formula.

My kids were on a swim team when they were little, as were most of the kids at their school (lots of swim clubs here in the summer; Missy Franklin was in the same age group as my kids and started at the neighborhood swim club. A bunch of the kids from these clubs swam in college, some NCAA stars at schools in North Carolina, Indiana, even Cal and Stanford. They are what you would consider the 99% group, just high school students and I don’t think any of them followed your timeline. They committed early or late, but weren’t waiting for likely letters or pre-reads. They heard from coaches over the years. One of the coaches from our club had 5 boys, and all went to elite swim schools because she had a lot of connections.

I think your list will work for your daughter, but not for others.

2 Likes
249

@Mwfan1921: if your intent is to correct my time line, you should at least read what I wrote carefully. at no time did I say that students receive a spot before pre-read, but rather they need coach support first, before getting pre-reads which can’t happent unless directed by a coach. if you believe that’s not the sequence, then please explain how you see pre reads happening without coach help and support.

To overseas swimmers and in sheer timed sports, this process remains a well defined process, because without coach dialogue and support, pre-reads don’t happen, and without pre-reads there is no recruiting/LL/full support.

D24 was late joining this process, so whilst freshman camp, sophomore year visit, and other regional meets with coach facing opportunities are great and abound for US swimmers, this isn’t the universe in which overseas swimmers operate. We understand Ivy coaches have mostly filled their rosters, and that D3 rosters are filling as we speak, though there are opportunities that arise later here and there as recruited lists change, and some athletes deliver exceptional late performance.

as such, there are very few Ivy/D3 slots available, particularly in academically competitive schools which many swimmers pursue. That’s all fine, is a good life lesson to realize there is a cost to being late and higher chances of missing the boat.

250

I didn’t recheck your post, but I believe you mentioned NLI ands LLs as step one. That is incorrect. Maybe you are thinking of “coach support” as interest. We typically refer to “coach support” as an offer.

So no, that does not come before the pre-read. In most cases coaches will identify several athletes that they are interested in and request a pre-read. Only after a positive pre-read the coach will/can offer support. Not all pre-reads will yield offers of support. Even if it was a positive one.

4 Likes
251

Generally, the term ‘coach support’ is used when discussing the offering of a slot (in selective college admissions) as in ‘the recruit has the full support of the coach through the admission process’. The terminology can get confusing which is what posters are reacting to in some of your posts.

If a coach requests a pre-read with admissions (again, this generally only happens at selective/highly selective schools) that means they are interested in that athlete, but not necessarily offering ‘support’ in the way it’s often used in recruiting. Some coaches will send 40 students to pre-reads for 4 spots, some will send 5 for 2 spots and every other variability.

Big picture, all of this talk of coach support/slots, LLs, and pre-reads is related to recruiting at a relatively small proportion of schools, and they tend to be highly rejective schools. The majority of athletic recruiting does not work this way, certainly not 99%…not at most D1 programs, nor most D2/3 programs, nor NAIA.

3 Likes
252

the correct qualifiers for my timeline should be timeline for lower ivy & academically selective D3 swim schools, which is what D24 targets

253

At a selective D3 an offer will DEFINITELY not come before a positive pre-read.

4 Likes
254

dunno where you read that in my post, but everyone’s free to see things

255

With Ivy/high academic schools, “Full support” means they will support you through admissions so it is basically and offer of an admissions slot. That comes after the summer pre-read and often after the recruit visits and spends some time with the team. As has been said by others here, a coach may ask a large number of kids for pre-read info, but only “fully support” a handful.

4 Likes
256

NiVo the terms you are using are confusing to many of us that have been through this process. At the dozen or so high academic schools my daughter was targeting the process looked the same at all.

Freshman year - daughter started researching schools and emailing introducing herself, sending highlights and athletic profiles and then continued emailing updates every 3-4 weeks. generally received no response or only generic emails back but her coaches did get some personalized feedback from college coaches expressing interest

Sophmore year - more emailing with highlights, schedules, and updates - attended targeted events to get in front of schools. (covid impacted this a bit) phone calls and zoom calls with d3 coaches, more coaches contact with her personal coaches

Summer after sophmore year - camps at targeted schools where coaches expressed interest (all d1 and d3), d1 phone calls and zoom calls, first mention of pre reads taking place after junior year by coaches when explaining the process. First d1 walk on offer received. First d2 offer received.

Fall junior year - weekly phone calls and zoom calls and text messages from coaches of all divisions, discussions on where daughter fell on the coaches lists, short lists developed by coaches and daughter dropped from some coaches lists (coaches typically emailed her to let he know they were no longer looking at her for a spot). A few ivy and top academic d3s let her know they would not have a supported slot for her and that if she wants to apply and then follow up if she gets in they would be interested in continuing to discuss. After first semester top academic coaches asked for grade update, some d1s asked for unofficial transcripts to get academic clearance. D2 offers received, d3 spots offered at a few schools

Spring junior year - offered pre reads from all d3 schools where daughter remained on their list and they remained on hers. unofficial visits were requested/offered by coaches, phone calls/text/zoom with current players arranged - very clear to see what schools wanted daughter (offered 10-12 d3 pre reads)

June/July after junior year - pre reads submitted and results received, supported admissions spots offered, coaches expressed timeline for accepting offers (d1, d2 and d3). discussion of ED applications at top academic d3s.

Aug/Sep senior year - financial aid discussions and discussions with coaches declining offers and coach supported slots. verbally committed to d3 and applied ED

Regardless of sport in most T100 schools the process is the same. Some d3s will wait just a bit later to see if any d1 kids don’t get the offers they are chasing and are willing to drop down but by Feb/Mar/Apr of junior year the picture gets a lot clearer with regards to true interest. If your daughter hasn’t been talking on the phone regularly with coaches at this point then the likelihood of coach support/LL at the schools you list is slim and she needs to be exploring other options.

6 Likes
257

I feel the title of this thread is not correct and will only confuse others in the future. Maybe I am the only one and would love to see it changed - just no clue what a title should be ???

I relied so much on CC while my daughter was going through the recruiting process for a non revenue sport and if I read this thread, I would have been so confused.

5 Likes
258

I think the general timeline for swimming is a little later to start the process because things change so much during this time. It’s not uncommon for girls to plateau during this time, while boys get suddenly bigger, stronger and faster.

The whole camp/showcase/getting in front of coaches doesn’t really apply because times are times. I think some coaches want to see a swimmer they are already considering in action (is there something they can fix and get even more time out of that swimmer?) but there is very detailed information available to them through MeetMobile and SwimCloud and most meets are streamed these days (one good thing that came out of COVID).

Regardless, the general sentiment of what you said is true, and I don’t think the second half of the process varies so much between sports.

7 Likes
259

I have been thinking this for a while.

Maybe an admin can edit? It’s a rabbit hole about swim recruiting going on an endless circle. Not a general discussion of Likely Letters. At the very least it shout be “Likely Letters for Swimmers”

5 Likes
260

Agree that boys in general across all sports tend to be about a year behind girls just because of physical growth and maturity.

Replace camps/showcases with events to get times (with or without college coaches in attendance) and like you said it is a fairly similar order of events for most sports

2 Likes
261

route A

times
emails (constant)
phone/zoom (repeatedly)
visits
coach to pre-reads
coach support/LL
recruited ED

route B

ED/RD, possible walk-on

route C

ED/RD, no swimming

262

How about “ Swimming Recruiting for Int’l Jr. Targeting Highly Selective Colleges“ for the new thread title?

5 Likes