@NiVo I noticed the two lists do not have much overlap. Has your daughter considered what it may be like for her to be at a school where she has been recruited but somehow does not end up playing or leaves the team?
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By available information, full-pay international students have been accepted at a rate greater than than the general acceptance rate at some colleges. Wesleyan offers an example of this.
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i would caution you to be sure your understanding and interpretation of international admit rates is correct. for the UC schools you have listed a quick internet search pulled the following admit rates for internationals - UC Davis 15%, UC Santa Cruz 48%, UC San Diego 20%, Berkley 9%, UCLA 14%. only santa cruz could possibly be considered a safety with those rates.
also for mcgill, those numbers are the minimum scores required to be considered for admissions. mcgill admits in order of qualification with those with the best stats getting accepted first and continues on down the line until all spots are filled. all applicants that meet those minimums do not get in - it is still a numbers game as they do not have unlimited spots to house and educate students, and with only about 30% of their student body being international and their commitment to hold spots for applicants from Canada and Quebec I wouldn’t, personally, categorize it as a safety
I am also a little surprised, but happy to see franklin and Marshall on your list as it is ranked significantly lower on the academic “prestige” list than any other schools you have entertained, but if you are considering Franklin and Marshall then maybe you will consider other equivalent schools if any drop off as you get closer to summer season and senior year.
Best of luck, the spring and summer before senior year were certainly the most stressful in our household but it was all worth it in the end and I am hopeful you daughter will find her right fit
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UC Santa Clara? I don’t believe there is any such place. If you are talking UCSC…that’s Santa Cruz…not Santa Clara. Please clarify.
There is Santa Clara University…but that is not a UC. It’s a private Jesuit college.
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yes santa cruz - my bad, honestly i looked up both because i was surprised to see santa cruz on the OPs list but the data listed is what i found for santa cruz. and honestly is santa cruz makes her list then I would think she could easily expand it to include many more likely schools for both swim and non swim
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The point was made very early in this thread. As a full pay international applicant, we’re solely focused on highly reputable schools with strong academics. Paying nearly 400k for an average American college is not worth the investment for us, and it wouldn’t help secure a first job in America. US college entrance maybe a must for an American, it is not a must for a non-American.
@TonyGrace we’re fine with a US shut out. I personally don’t think it’ll happen and would bet $5000 with whomever wants to take that bet. we have a detailed understanding of what it means to be rejected, though we don’t understand what it means to be rejected by Harvard since parents both got admitted there, but opted to attend another school
@GKmom23 : Franklin & Marshall is on her swim list. Unless recruited, she won’t apply.
@JLDDCC the two lists don’t have much overlap because the second list is capped at UCs + 9 schools, so ~4-5 is already 50% overlap. She prefers to be recruited but if not, would have a pretty good chance to walk on at most of the overlap schools, or can alternatively join club swimming.
As a non recruit, D24 has an application cap of 10 (UCs + 9 schools), and will restrict herself to certain UCs and Toronto/McGill as her safeties. One can argue until Christmas about how much of a stretch or reach the other schools are, they are simply the schools which are worth full pay to us.
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But swimming does not mean that she will not be full pay. Is that fine in that case?
What happens if she cannot swim after a year or two for whatever reason? I think this is the point @JLDDCC was trying to make.
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But if she would consider Franklin and Marshall for swimming then maybe it is wor th it to reach out to other comparable schools and see if they would recruit her and be a fit.
Similarly if Santa Cruz is “worth it” in your families opinion then there are likely similar UCs or other schools that are similar academically that would be stronger options then multiple applications to the HPYS of the world
Just my two sense, and I will quietly go back to just reading
Good luck!
It’s not clear what the OP is asking for at this point (not that I’ve read the entire thread.)
I guess this is what confuses me most. Don’t you want her potential schools to pass the “broken leg test?” Meaning, if she is recruited but then while at the school winds up getting hurt or leaves the team, would she still want to attend school there?
If the answer is no, then why even look at that school? You have to take the above into consideration. It happens more often than you think.
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The thread is about understanding the process, the intricacies and technicalities of seeking to be a swim recruit at academically selective North American/Canadian colleges, which remains D24’s goal
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That’s what it was 700+ posts ago. Doesn’t the Law of Diminishing Returns begin to apply at some point? Seriously, if the thread has migrated to a kind blog or journal about your child’s experience, there’s nothing wrong with that. Just trying to direct traffic a little bit (right now, it seems as if all lanes are open.) 
@Vertigo75: she’s fine with the combination of team swimming and academics at Franklin & Marshall, but if she isn’t in the squad, there are other schools she’d prefer on sheer academics. The exact same view applied to Middlebury, once the coach stated that he was done with 2024 recruiting, the school immediately came off her list.
Nice …
But what if she is recruited and then gets hurt or decides swimming in college isn’t for her? Would it be an automatic transfer?
I don’t know - maybe it’s just me - but it was an absolute requirement for my current college athlete kid (and also my recruited HS senior) to understand that the academics came first, and they had to like the school for the school, not just being able to compete on a varsity sport there. Obviously, if extreme circumstances came into play and they just were not happy, then a transfer discussion would be had. However, both are and will be D3 athletes, so no athletic money involved. If a high level D1 scholarship athlete, then “possibly” would be a different conversation.
it’s not because someone isn’t attending their dream school that he/she will seek to transfer after freshman year
The question is what happens if there is drama on the team, the coach leaves, there is an injury… the reality is that a lot of athletes don’t compete for all 4 years.
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Yep! For both my kids’ sports we looked at rosters to see how many students stayed with the team year after year. The results were very eye-opening.
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we make choices, and if team swimming is no longer part of her equation, D24 will move on to campus life without team swimming. life is about adjusting to change
Happy to hear your suggestions, but US Santa Cruz would be a backup safety, and only a factor if D24 isn’t recruited, and isn’t admitted to McGill, which we believe is highly unlikely