we’re casting a pretty wide net that includes ivy/NESCAC/…~20+ schools
unfortunately, because we are international/outside the US, all meetings will be by phone/zoom, until the summer visits
Plus senior class schedule in many cases.
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Good replies so far. Many of these timeline/process issues will become more clear after discussions with the coaches.
I’d be sure to ask each coach what the recruiting process is at their program, their timeline for things like visits as well as decisions on which recruits to support.
Right now I’d focus on ensuring you’ve identified all schools/programs where the recruit might fit and what sort of school they prefer. Keep in mind athletic fit might change if marks improve.
As others have said, I wouldn’t narrow options prematurely. Drop any schools where the academics or location or some other factor won’t fit. But most recruits don’t have the option of narrowing to schools where coach support is offered early on because that support isn’t decided until fairly late in the process. So it’s necessary to keep many options open.
Another thing that is worth focusing on is the Plan B if athletic recruiting does not yield desirable options. In the U.S. this might mean going to the state flagship and finding a way to keep swimming, but more recreationally. Knowing what the Plan B is can help with filtering out recruiting options (in the sense that any school that feels like a worse option than the Plan B school is easy to drop).
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You’re absolutely right.
she’s identified 15+ swim schools across academic range with ED admission rates ranging from 9% (JHU) to 40% (Wesleyan). If recruited, she would ED at ~10 of them, and EA at the remaining.
Plan B would add academically exceptional schools (Stanford, Columbia, UCLA, Berkeley, UVA) at which she would try to walk-on but most realistically only be able to swim recreationally
Plan C would be gap year with internship & swim training
Students can only apply to one school ED (whether or not they are a recruited athlete). If not accepted or deferred in the ED1 round, students can apply ED2 to another school (but not the same school where they were denied/deferred in ED1).
Students can generally apply to more than one EA school at the same time and in addition to one ED school, unless the EA program is single choice or restricted. Make sure to read the application rules on each school’s website.
This would be a tough road, as the recruiting process for 2025 would start before your D has much of a chance to train and improve her competition swim times.
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So, you do not understand how athletic recruiting works. That’s ok, none of us knew anything at the beginning. I pointed you towards two resources. They will answer most of your questions. I’d urge you to read them asap so you can get up to speed.
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With the caveat that very few schools offer ED2.
And in an attempt to make crystal clear for the OP, some of the colleges that offer EA, specifically for the OP’s list - Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford - prohibit applying simultaneously early to any other private university.
Regardless, building upon an earlier post, even if the stars align and the OP’s kid finds a combination of colleges where one can legitimately apply to one ED and one or more EA, no coach will knowingly waste a slot on an applicant who is applying early to multiple colleges as a recruited-athlete.
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She’d be club swimming at all of the Plan B schools. There is no athletic hook.
I’d wager there are zero walk-on swimmers at UVA, Stanford, Cal, probably UCLA. Stanford and Cal are among the best of the best. And, UVA is the best women’s team in the Country. For reference, I think UVA already signed something like 5 or 6 of the nationally top 25 ranked 2024 swimmers. You’re competing with Olympians for spots at these schools – along with high academics.
Go to swimcloud.com and see where her times fit on rosters for the 2021-22 competition year. Do not use the current year times, as they have not tapered yet, but look at their current rosters to see what freshman were brought in. Use this info to judge potential athletic fit. If they do not list cut times, they’ll want conference scoring times along with a history of solid progression.
It’s an unfortunately black-and-white process at the pointy end of D-1 swimming. You’re either fast by their standards or you aren’t. I say this not to be critical, rather as a parent of a currently recruited (high academic) swimmer c/o 24 who is going through the same thing.
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From the MIT squash coach: Thierry Lincou - MIT — College Squash Insiders
TL: "Over here at MiT, the prospective student athlete needs to meet the academic requirements in the first place. They need to be good/excellent in Math and Sciences. Guys on the team are into Maths, Physics, Computer Science, Engineering…
We do not provide slots but if recruits qualify then I can use my full support to get players in. This makes the difference.
There is no pre-read from admission, if they apply Early Action, they will get an answer from admissions mid December (the same time as the Head coach). The last 2 years I was able to get 4 recruits per year. I am proud to have a team of players who represent excellence in academics and squash. Here we probably have the best combination of Academics & Squash."
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Coach Lincou, thanks much for your detailed clarification. And good luck for the squash season.
Thanks, apologies for my communication: she understands she will only have one single ED1 choice, and I meant she would ED1 at any one of 8-10 schools where the coach commits to provide strong support /LL her application.
At the same time. and as a backup in case something happens, she would apply EA to a number of swim schools, with the understanding that coaches much prefer to support athletes who are committed to ED.
Plan C just reflects the reality of the world for any student who gets rejected by every school they apply to. Nobody wishes for that outcome, but it happens statistically even to the best prepared, but life must go on and one tries to make the best of it
agreed on very near zero chance to walk-on at UVA, Stanford, Cal, UCLA. she would apply to these schools strictly on academics and legacy for one of them.
She’s on swimcloud, indeed hoping to continue to display momentum and improve her times. There are a number of programs in her 15+ Plan A target list where her Personal Bests would fit within these teams, but not be the top-1 in the team for that specific strike/race.
whilst she’s not been as early as other in engaging with coaches, she’s now fully launched her effort, and will continue in the upcoming ten months to engage with both coaches as well as some of the current swimmers in schools she targets.
sounds like our children may be targeting some of the same schools side by side!
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There is no reason ever for any student to be denied by every school they apply to. If that happens, there was a critical error in list building where the student didn’t apply to at least one affordable safety school and a handful of match/target schools. There are many very good schools in the US that would be considered safeties and matches for all levels of academics (with some exceptions, including international students with a high level of financial need).
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her target list is realistic and consistent with her grades, and includes schools with ED admit rates up to 40%. we support her choice of wanting to stay with that extensive list.
two of her friends were rejected by every school they applied to in 2021 because it can simply happen statistically. As plan C, one of them received early admit to Columbia for 2023 entry, and the other to the #1 hotel management school in the world for 2023 entry Life goes on and they made the best out of it
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ED admit rates can be misleading because, especially at smaller liberal arts schools, there is a relatively high proportion of hooked applicants admitted that round. Hooked applicants include recruited athletes (also URMs, Questbridge and Posse applicants, etc), so if your D ends up applying ED as a recruited athlete after a positive pre-read, she will have a high chance of admission. If unhooked, likely quite a bit lower chance than the published acceptance rate.
It doesn’t happen when students have balanced, reasonable lists, including at least one affordable safety. It’s different though for international students who have financial need, because they may not be able to identify a US affordable option, so perhaps that’s a reason these students were shut out.
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I’m with @Mwfan1921 on this. Her Plan B list should include one or more schools where she is nearly certain to be admitted. That can be in her home country, a few US state schools or less competitive LACs, or a school like UBC.
The marginal cost of those apps is low and the downside risk of not doing that is significant and unnecessary. There’s no reason not to do that. If March comes and she decides to go with your plan C then fine. It’s not a great place to be honestly.
There are very good schools that aren’t as competitive for admissions. Some of those also recruit athletes.
If it helps, I know quite a few Ivy, Stanford, Duke, etc., athletes and not one of them would have taken a gap year if their top choices didn’t work out. They all had backup schools where they knew they’d get in and would be happy attending.
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both of these students were international students with no financial need. They just sought a very high quality level of education in their chosen major commensurate with the full tuition they have to pay, which is a lot of money. we respect their choice.
one of them was accepted to another strong home country school, and deferred to have another go and compete in sports, which is commendable. whilst it’s not common in the US, many countries have a tradition of either gap years (UK), or military service (Singapore, Taiwan, Israel, Switzerland…), so one can’t necessarily frame a gap year as a choice that doesn’t provide live development.
but we also absolutely understand both (@politeperson & @mwfan1921) of your points about including a safety school on the list
Best of luck to you and your daughter. Please keep this updated as to her progress.
It’s a fun but frustrating process.
In all probability it is true that the MIT coach gets in four recruits each year. The question is how many athletes does he/she recruit and get to apply early to get the four admitted. MIT and Chicago are reputed to “over-recruit,” meaning that they have coach lists of some 10-20, in order of skill, that they submit to admissions. This can be challenging for the recruits. In the case of MIT, I do believe that most recruits know that they have only increased their odds of admission from say 5% to 50%. It still doesn’t make it easier when they get deferred and are asked to hang in there to see if admissions chooses their name later.
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D24 will secure backup school outside the US by October 2023, with qualifying grades & swimming times, in a highly reputable university. That resolves the safety school issue, so the strategy becomes
Plan A: target Div3/ivy swim schools. early round with one ED school with coach support/LL & 1-3 EA schools
Plan B: Apply to Stanford (legacy), UCLA, Berkeley, UVA in Regular Round
pheww… finally a straight forward strategy. The only potential modification would be if her times improve very substantially in the coming 6 months, but it’s unlikely
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