What do you placement numbers indicate? Where she placed at her meet? Or something else? Surely at this point posting the actual times would be much more useful then posting ordinals
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the placement numbers are how she ranks within the current team of a school where she seeks strong coach support, and the coach pays close attention to that metric.
50F 24.92
100F 52.86
200F 1.57.09
50 Fly 26.36
100 Fly 59.35
100 IM 1:02:37
200 IM 2:13:79
For all her target teams, the key events for her to improve are 50F/200F/100Fly
D24 eliminated more schools from her swim list: Chicago, Tufts, Carnegie Mellon, Williams, John Hopkins, Dartmouth, Pomona-Pritzker, Claremont McKenna, Middlebury
Current swim list includes couple reach schools, but is being curated as time progresses:
McGill, Amherst, Wesleyan, Grinnell, Washington St Louis, Bowdoin, Swarthmore, Hamilton, Bates, Colby
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Are these SCY or converted?
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converted
Which conversion? There has been discussion here previously that coaches are more likely to use more conservative estimates. The SwimSwam Swimulator Real-Time Converter would be better in this regard, compared to their “Classic” converter.
What are the non-converted times?
And what events were new (actual, not converted) PBs achieved? It doesn’t appear that there have been improvements to the PBs reported in February in 100 Free, 50 Free, or 50 Fly, but maybe one in 200F. 100 Fly, 100 IM and 200 IM weren’t previously reported.
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Solid list if the swim times are there for coach support - we did pre reads at a few of those you have listed and got results fairly quickly after submitting documents, with offers coming quickly after so you should know how things shake out in the next few weeks/months.
Just be prepared that you will likely not have much time to accept an offer so it was helpful for us to have schools in groups instead of a rank list. In group A if offered by any school daughter would immediately accept; if in group B she would ask for time frame; and those in group C when offered she told coaches she wasn’t prepared to accept.
It will all work out and remember, it only takes one coach!
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@GKmom23 thanks for your advice. at this moment D24 is still hopeful that indeed the coach support will materialize. she’s already heard of her friend’s specific offers from D1 / Top D3 schools, including an offer with scholarship that was declined, as both of them are very much focused on the most selective schools. in that sense, she feels that she is still very much playing catch up, and continues to be very focused on training, improving times, and actively communicating with coaches. In those communications, she is asking for more and more clarity about the certainty/timing/requirements of pre-reads (except for those where all the information has already been requested and provided), and the confirmation of strong coach support. But at this stage, no coach has expressively confirmed strong coach support or her exact ranking on his/her list.
in the dynamic you have described, we didn’t originally expect coaches to express strong support before visits, but are also observing that her friend did receive offers from schools she hasn’t yet visited. So we continue to press forward and schedule visits for the summer, and actively seek as much direct feedback/clarify as possible regarding the support level.
To your point about decisions, she’s very clear about the schools that have a substantial academic advantage (not necessarily based on ranking, but rather the strength in her field of interest). Of course, visits themselves may impact her final preferences. 3 are clearly in group A. The earlier advice in the thread was to immediately call coaches in Group A if any offers from Group B materialize. would that also be would be your recommendation?
My daughter was also looking at schools a significant distance away (not anything like you guys but 8-12 hours) and did receive offers of support before visits, but at the d3 schools it was after pre read results, so don’t get too frustrated yet.
Daughter also got very frustrated when teammates were committing (for us that started summer before junior year) but kept on her path so just keep supporting your daughter and reminding her to keep her focus on those schools that continue to express interest and block out the noise. About half of her teammates at her club committed before her and then about half after her (I think we have 26 committed kids for 2023, and two just committed in March)
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Part of her frustration comes from not yet having firm declared support, from the fact the majority of her swim schools are in NESCAC and subject to the pre-read schedule delayed to 1 Aug, and finally that 2 schools don’t yet have a nominated head coach.
Luckily, she remains steadfast in her motivation to train, persevere, and hope for the light at the end of the tunnel.
Just be prepared for how your daughter will handle the situation if a non NESCAC school makes her an offer for full support in ED after her pre read results but before she gets the NESCAC results and potential offer. It is good to have those discussions before the event actually happens, we found things really sped up in may/June/July regarding timelines for commitments and such
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We never shared with coaches from one school if offers were received from another but were honest with the schools in group C that she wasn’t ready to make a commitment yet and was still exploring options. Many coaches in group B and C were supportive but made it known that coach support would only be available if she committed to apply ED. She did let coaches in group A know that they were her top choice and she was ready to commit if supported by the coach.
She followed this plan with similar discussions with coaches from all divisions. Coaches were very understanding that she wouldn’t apply ED without full support and clear on if they could support her application. We also had run net price calculators, had financial pre reads and financial discussions at all schools she submitted pre reads to, so we knew that piece when she talked about committing or not with coaches.
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are the full support offers typically communicated in email, on phone/zoom call, or even during in person visit?
she’s very clear that she would only apply ED to a swim school where she receives clear strong coach support, has her ranking position amongst recruits, and confirmation of past history in terms of recruiting at her rank. She’s actively asking coaches for timelines, in the hope of better understanding when each coach makes a commitment, and will likely seek a definitive answer.
she wants to wait for confirmed pre-reads before informing the Group A coaches that she would accept/commit if she received strong support. she’s very hopeful that further time improvements will solidify her case, with 1 meet in 2 weeks, and 2 meets in July.
Discussions regarding pre reads, support and applications largely took place on phone calls. With the final group of schools still being considered in June after junior year (10-12 schools) my daughter had been in communications with coaches for quite a few months.
We didn’t ask questions about rank or history or support. Daughter did ask how many recruits in her position were being considered, and how many of her position are typically rostered and/or travel, and how many the coach was looking to recruit. We also researched historical size of each recruiting class.
Coaches often brought up support and what it meant when discussing pre read results. After months of communication and research we felt we had a strong feeling on the coaches we could trust and that were being honest with daughter.
Coaches were pretty up front about level of support - one Ivy clearly stated that daughter would have a spot if accepted in her own merit but he had no additional support slots (very similar to discussions regarding preferred walk on spots with D1s that didn’t have money for daughter), two NESCAC schools offered spot but no support, one school did not offer financial clarity prior to ED so those were all removed from our list but coaches were very up front at about it at all the schools when discussing next steps with daughter and understanding when she told them she couldn’t apply ED. A few told her to keep them in mind if ED didn’t work out and wished her good luck.
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Full support is offered directly verbally (phone/zoom or in person during official visit in my student’s case). Then, the coach followed up with written confirmation.
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The revised swim college target list has 9 U.S. schools. Of those, six were ranked in the top 27 of the CSCAA Division III Poll in March. That’s a very top-heavy list in terms of swim program strength.
Hope is great, but a reality check may be in order to target programs that will generate more interest than has apparently been shown to date.
There was a statement in February that “Her best/most recent personal times would rank D24 in the Top16 of Ivy (1 event), UAA (1), NESCAC (2), Centennial (3), and SCIAC (3) annual championships and enable her to contribute championship points at a number of schools.”
Looking at the recent list of PBs that were converted to SCY, I back-calculated using the Swimulator Real Time Converter to get more realistic/conservative estimates, and only one event had a time that would have scored in the 2023 NESCAC conference championship (100 free in the last scoring position at #24); the rest of the times are in the 27th to 37th range. No events are close to top 16.
Other posters with swim knowledge will have a better idea about how recruitable those times are, but without an immediate obvious impact in any particular event, that likely means that the hope would be to find a weaker NESCAC swim program (or equivalent in another conference) or a stronger one that happens to have a current relative deficiency in a particular stroke that is this potential recruit’s strength.
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This is probably a good way to get an idea of programs that may be interested in the potential recruit because of the program’s relative current weaknesses in a specific event/stroke. Of course, as is alluded to, the incoming 2023 class could have plugged these deficiencies in team composition (and one would think that those areas would have been identified as previous recruiting priorities).
In these examples, IMO school #2 would not be particularly interested. Even with a potential #1 team rank in the 50 butterfly, the two faster current swimmers in the 100 butterfly likely have very close times in the 50. The #3 rank in the 100 free would similarly not likely be very compelling with the large number of faster swimmers in the 50 free and 200 free who are likely very close in the 100.
As far as school #1, that seems more promising (particularly for the 100/200 free), assuming there aren’t 2023 recruits who fill those gaps or potential 2024 commits who the coach already has relationships with.
I would make sure that you are using the more conservative Swim Swam time conversion method until the swimmer can confirm times with actual SCY results this summer. Also, I don’t think the 100IM is a standard college event, so that relative potential rank isn’t really relevant.
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This event is swum at dual meets and perhaps others. You can look at results for NESCAC schools. I did this for Tufts, not one of the OP’s schools.
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The same can be said of the 50Fly. Stroke 50s are generally not part of NCAA, USA Swimming and have yet to be added to the Olympic line up. There is little value outside of a medley relay. I agree that 100Flyers probable have great 50s and so will most Free sprinters.
While the 100IM (also not NCAA/USA Swimming/Olympics) may be thrown into the mix on occasion I doubt that any coach will be recruiting a swimmer bc of if.
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12 ongoing coach discussions
- 2 pre-read passed with strong support
- 1 pre-read passed with scheduled visit and team practice, but different timeline
- 5 coach visits with expected pre-reads (targeting for 1+ strong coach support)
- 1 awaiting feedback from AD regarding pre-read and process
- 3 coaches @faster reach schools haven’t confirmed pre-reads
For recruiting purpose, she’s focused on 50/100/200F, 50/100Fly, and 100/200IM. Whilst the 50 fly isn’t raced, coaches do look at 100IM for NESCAC dual meets, and 50fly for 200IM relays, both of which are less important in the context of scoring points.
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Fantastic update - so does she now have 3 offers and possibly 5 more after visits?
From going off your most recent swim list that your positive pre read plus visit will be with McGill, since you can’t practice with US D3 schools, and that the five upcoming coach visits are your NESCACS minus Wesleyan, since they haven’t done pre reads yet.
You said Wash U and Swarthmore were wanting faster times, did her new times meet those? Fingers crossed one of your positive reads with offer of support is from one of those and McGill, as I know you had them high up on the list.
So were your two offers with Grinnell and Franklin Marshall? I didn’t see Franklin Marshall on your most recent list, but thought that it was one the list at one point. If so, great job and fantastic options there. I loved Grinnell, daughter didn’t, but it is a fantastic school and treats its athletes and students very well. Daughter also looked at Franklin Marshall but it wasn’t a good fit for her so she didn’t continue through the pre read process, but it is a beautiful campus and I really liked the location.
How exciting to be nearing the end of the process and being able to take off a lot of the stress this summer and instead focus on training and having fun in the US.
Hopefully one of these are a great fit and she can commit during her visit.
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