Either way, nothing D24 can do about coaches musical chairs and positioning besides talking to them, updating them, and seeking their interest by swimming faster.
The real benefit of this exercise is that it teaches 17 yard olds about the real world, how coaches careers objectives impact their own sports and educational journey
My thoughts exactly. He will surely reach out to some of his current recruits that have solid academics and faster times and offer to present them for pre-reads. Additionally, there may be some kids from his current program that would look favorably on a transfer option to a much higher academic reputation school that could be immediate impact players at Grinnell.nHowever the vastly different social climate may have some impact on the desirability of Grinnell. Hope’s Christian identity may be valuable to many of its current swimmers and recruits vs Grinnell’s much more liberal campus.
I agree that this is more of an impediment than academics. At a superficial glance those schools could not be further apart. OTOH Hope is a strong enough program to attract at least a few athletes who may not feel strongly one way or the other.
I think these are less likely to follow the coach to a less competitive program and a reasonably similar academic experience.
@TonyGrace … only hope you’re right!
I think one of the hardest parts of being in the recruiting process is getting outside of your personal wants/needs/priorities and realizing that often time everyone in the process has very different priorities.
It helped us to understand that our goals may well run alongside a coach’s goals (or other recruit’s goals) but often aren’t actually aligned…if that makes sense. Some recruits are looking for the best sport program, some are looking to parlay their athletics to admission to a more academically ‘elite’ school than they might get without sports recruitment, some are looking to continue their sport with another prime directive all together. Coaches are looking for impact athletes that fit into their existing program; both athletically and philosophically…and at highly selective schools - academically as well. The big question with coaches is…how does each weigh those three considerations?
By student profile, Bates and Wesleyan University appear to be pretty different. For example, according to its Common Data Set, Bates enrolls 55% of its students from the top tenth of their high school classes, while the figure for Wesleyan is markedly higher, at 79% (to the extent that information is available for this statistic). Moreover, the standardized scoring profile for Wesleyan is probably much more “true” than that for Bates based on the disparate percentages of students (i.e., much higher at Wesleyan) who ultimately reported scores at these schools.
Yes.
In Hope’s 2021-22 CDS, 56.5% of the entering class had a 4.0 GPA. Sure, their reported average SAT/ACT score ranges are substantially lower than Grinnell’s for 2021-22, but a much higher percentage at Hope submitted them in the first place, so who knows what the real comparative is? And many of the athletic recruits will apply test-optional anyway (only about 30% of enrolled students at Grinnell reported scores) if they don’t meet the astronomical test averages, and they’ll pass pre-reads with high GPA’s and adequate course rigor.
one cannot guess or predict all the intricacies of moving chairs, coaches pulling recruits and transfers from one school to another, or how certain athletes will prefer to commit early over waiting for slower school/coaches/conference to give their strong support. Athletes can really only rely on what coaches tell them, sometimes in earnest, other times with subtleties, and proceed with what is really offered to them in the end. if there is choice, then think it through and decide, if there isn’t then either accept the only offer or seek more options through the regular admissions process.
I absolutely would not underestimate the draw of kids to coaches they’ve already established relationships with - some of them since they were freshman/sophomores. My son wanted to swim, but academics were the priority. I’d say on his club team, a handful of others had a similar mindset while the rest were prioritizing swimming. Some really strong academic kids made some interesting college choices because they liked a coach and went to schools with 80% admission rates where they absolutely did not need swimming as a hook.
Agreed. Also, some high academic kids can draw a lot of merit money from decent schools while being able to study want they want while still being able to play the sport they love. Academics are still the priority, but COA and sport participation also play a part in the decision.
While I agree with much of what you are saying here I think mid June before senior year is not that time when you are you dealing with subtleties from coaches. Please take what coaches tell you at face value and if there seems to be a grey area or an area of misunderstanding please immediately ask for clarity. There should be very little grey or maybe or we will see at this point in the recruiting process. The coaches know their priorities and their lists and where potential recruits fall and should be honest with your daughter, if they are not providing clarity that should be a very big red flag
this could also depend on who drove the recruiting process at Bates. If the assistant coach was the main recruiting contact some may feel a connection to her and follow to Wesleyan and the fact that she reached out to some recruits about her new position should not be taken lightly.
Honest question - who is still talking to assistant coach senior year?!? It’s common for them to be involved early on but if my kid hadn’t connected to main coach summer before senior year I would assume they’re not interested. That is not at all our experience.
i really believe it depends on who handles the recruiting, at some schools communication is largely through an assistant coach until the PSA does an official/unofficial visit and/or passes the preread. other times the assistant coach acts as a pre screener for the coach, and if the PSA pass the first phase they move onto deeper discussions with the head coach.
also it is often sport or position based. for my daughter, as a goal keeper, many times the head coach passed on much communications and evaluations to the assistant coach that worked specifically with goal keepers. even now summer workout packets for GKs came from the assistant, who is the GK coach, and not the head coach.
with swimming, many programs have the same staff for men’s and women’s so it is possible they split the duties depending on stroke and such.
it was mentioned up thread that the assistant coach at bate’s reached out to recruits she was communicating with to notify them of her move to Wesleyan, which is why i mentioned it specifically.
To clarify, Bates head coach reached out to my daughter recently and wanted to know if she might be interested in filling out their recruiting questionnaire and setting up a call. She responded and the e-mail went from there to the (now former) assistant coach who was presumably going to handle the initial call. At the same time, she must have gotten the offer from Wesleyan because she e-mailed DD notifying her of her departure (and her new position) and advising her to redirect Bates recruiting communication.
I don’t know who at Bates handles what communication, our experience with the high academic D3s has been a bit of a mixed bag. My sense is that, for the most part, the high academic D3s don’t really start moving forward in the recruiting process until summer before senior year (this has been confirmed by DD’s former teammates who now swim at some of these schools). The schools have their lists of prospective recruits, which they start putting together in the Fall of junior year (or earlier), they tweak them as they go along, but most are waiting for end of junior year grades and subsequent pre-reads. To give you one recent example, CMS - DD e-mailed last Fall, was put on the list of prospective recruits and then all we saw was an occasional update (group e-mail) from the head coach. The most recent update asked for pre-read docs by 6/20, then DD got an individual e-mail asking her to set up a call, which was handled by the assistant coach, 7/1 pre-reads are next… I will add that a notable exception to this timeline is NYU, which does early reads with no end of junior year grades. I know some of these schools are not necessarily on OP’s list but posting here for others who may be looking for future reference. We are not at the end of the road yet but this has been our experience with recruiting at the high academic D3s so far.
Not to mention that ethically Coach Vanessa cannot poach recruits that were talking to her at Bates, nor do I think she would do that to her mentor/friend Coach Casares. The only scenario where this would happen is if a recruit was already simultaneously talking to both Wesleyan and Bates.
Very similar experience for my daughter with nescac and UAA schools along with a few other top schools - very much accelerated from late spring into summer after junior year. Although for her sports they did travel to top showcase events throughout the year and spoke to DD during and after those events - again sometimes the assistant and sometimes the head coach. Hands are really tied for many until pre reads but then things move fast
Is this “no poaching” things a NESCAC rule? While certainly best practice it does happen frequently across sports and divisions.
Also, it would make sense that athletes she was in contact with at Bates and weren’t good fits for their program but could be good fits for her new program would be high on her list.
Again, all things will shake out in the next few weeks - fingers crossed that all the 2024s find their right fit!
Most likely the ball is on the athlete’s court.
When we found out an assistant coach we had been communicating with took a head coach position somewhere else, we reached out. He was happy to pick up the conversation in the new context.