Swimming Recruiting for Int’l Jr. Targeting Highly Selective Colleges

Athletic Recruits
1175

Congrats on having five fantastic options at this point!

Hopefully the coaches you sent pre read reports (not sure what that is honestly) to requested those documents because they are expecting to submit your daughter’s info for pre reads. Coaches asking for more info is always a good sign.

Sending more positive thoughts your way as it is an exciting and nervous time for the athletes and parents. It sounds like your daughter put in a lot of hard work to get to this point so quickly from where she was just a few weeks back so congrats to her and safe travels to the US!

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1176

This is kind of puzzling, maybe I am misinterpreting what you wrote. In our experience, the coaches asked our kids for specific information because they were going to affirmatively submit them for pre-reads. It wasn’t, here is my transcript, test scores and senior classes in case you decide to submit them for a pre-read. The important step is after a positive pre-read to query the coach whether he/she will commit to support her now as one of her top recruits or whether she needs to wait as a recruit further down the list.

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1177

Same. A few requested statements too.

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1178

The coaches have consistently asked to be updated about both time improvements in the pool, and academic updates. D24 received her most significant academic update in the form of IB predicted grades, so updated all the coaches. That includes schools where she had already passed pre-reads, coaches who were waiting for the last set of information from the 2022-2023 academic year to submit for pre-reads, as well as coaches who were semi engaged and whom she asked to confirm whether she would be chosen for pre-read (Swarthmore, Pomona, Washington St, Carnegie Mellon) but are most likely going to drop her. Objectively, she likely have in the range off 5-10 pre-reads, and targets 3-5 coach support. Time Will two whether her estimates are ballpark correct

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1179

Yes, coaches ask for athletic and academic updates, but that does not mean they will select your kid for a pre-read. You will know it because they will tell you affirmatively and will tell you exactly what they need. For us they needed an official HS transcript, a senior class list generated by the HS and a test score report from the College Board or ACT, but one that could just be printed from on-line. Different schools may have different requirements. If a coach does not tell you that they are submitting for a pre-read affirmatively (silence means a no) by sometime in July, assume you are not on their list (or very very far down the depth chart).

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1180

@BKsquared fully agreed. D24 is somewhat methodical and direct, so she opted to provide full information upfront to save time, and seek complete feedback. Where she won’t be recruited, she may opt to skip the visit alltogether to focus on the schools where she passed or has been selected for pre-read, because the travel schedule is quite concentrated. it maybe a bit rude, but it’s probably fair given the time constraints

1181

Not rude at all.

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1182

I don’t think it’s rude at all to skip visits to schools that haven’t shown significant recruiting interest.

From my experience, you could even diplomatically forgo a visit because of logistics and timing, and still remain on a recruiting priority list as long as the PSA demonstrates significant real interest.

There may be schools worth visiting that haven’t shown recruiting interest but where a varsity walk-spot would be a viable option if admission is secured without coach support (But for whatever reason, a lot of these seem to be on the “drop if no coach support” list, in favor of larger and mid-sized schools where club swimming or no swimming might be the only option).

As a parent, I would try to squeeze a couple of those in, especially with: 1) the student not having visited any U.S. schools before and not knowing how they will react to different campus sizes, layouts, and surrounding locations, 2) a lot of small LACs being significantly different in terms of campus feel and location (e.g. Williams vs Swarthmore are vastly different in terms of locale).

1183

@NiVo I believe Tufts is on your visit list? I just got back from Boston with my S. In two days we visited Tufts, BC, BU and MIT. Could have thrown in Harvard if we didn’t need to hit the road by 12.

He is only looking at a couple of these schools but it was a great exercise in experiencing different types of campuses and school culture to help figure out his preferences.

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1184

Harvard is for her little sister, Tufts would be for walk-on potential, then heading up north to visit a lot of NESCAC coaches and McGill, stopping at Dartmouth/Brown for her sister. Best of luck to your son in his pursuit.

Swim times uploaded to US swimming, she will swim meet in Florida & California Sectionals. Last 2 meets to improve times before her final discussions.

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1185

Hopefully you will also be able to visit Grinnell since she already passed a pre read and I really think it is a great school that needs to be visited before committing. You are certainly covering a lot of ground (CA to FL to MA to CAN) while in the US! Best of luck

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1186

Tufts is an interesting case study for admissions stats (and the limitations of trying to use them).

First of all, unlike many places, they don’t play games with deferrals and only defer 8% of ED1 applicants. On the other hand, they don’t publish ED admission rates. They are also a bit coy in terms of stating whether ED applicants get a boost or not:

“ I will be asked at least one time, “Isn’t it reallyyyy easier to get in ED?”

My answer to this question is yes. And no. And kind of.

So let’s break Early Decision down and have a real talk.

First thing’s first: It is NOT (I repeat NOT) easier to get into Tufts ED. But sometimes it’s harder to get in Regular Decision.”

For Fall 2023 Tufts had 34,000 applicants and 3,230 acceptances = 9.5% acceptance rate. Unknown ED1 acceptance rate. Based on previous years, they had around 600 ED1 acceptances.

And about 35% of the incoming class was accepted in the ED1 round. However, that last stat is highly deceptive: ED1 acceptances have essentially a 100% enrollment (yield) rate, while RD acceptances have a much lower yield. Doing the math, at an overall yield rate of around 53%, that means that ED1 admits make up only 19% of all acceptances. That’s the important figure to keep in mind: over 81% of all acceptances were after the ED1 round.

The ED1 round has a large number of hooked acceptances. Tufts has about 800 varsity athletes (808 listed for 2017 based on the linked 2019 WaPo article). If almost all of those got in via admissions slots as is likely, that’s 200 per year out of the 600 ED1 acceptances.

Other targeted hooked categories could easily account for at least another 150 acceptances in the ED1 round, leaving maybe 250 spots in the ED1 round for unhooked applicants. The overall acceptance rate for the ED1 round is certainly higher than the RD round, but once you back out the hooked applicants from the equation, it gets murky. Even if there was data for it, the unhooked ED1 round applicant pool will have different characteristics than the RD applicant pool and is likely to have more competitive candidates even excluding hooked applicants, so actual acceptance chances are likely to be close. That is what Tufts means when they say “It is NOT (I repeat NOT) easier to get into Tufts ED.”

Others may have more insight or data behind the scenes, but the above is a start.

Sources:

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1187

As she rolls into face to face visits, her notes suggest

  1. seeking direct answers on anything that’s unclear, such as:
  • understanding training culture, dynamic outside of swimming, team make up
  • can you confirm that I will have a pre-read, and that from your experience my current grade/expected IB/SAT will pass your pre-read
  • could you share how many new swimmers will be recruited into 2024, and where I currently rank on your list
  • since I have 2 meets coming up, could you give me an indication of the times required to give me your full support to my application
  • what is the coaching team’s track record of getting admission for the swimmers who have have been given strong coach support
  • have you already offered your strong support to swimmers coming in 2024? if so, how many such offers have been made? how many have committed?
  • decision/ commitment timeline

  1. Keeping parents at a distance, besides meeting at the beginning or end

  2. Any other suggestions, recommendations?

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1188

I personally wouldn’t ask some of those questions you have listed. Questions about team culture, training, and such are great. Questions about balancing school and training, questions about how many team members there are in each discipline/stroke and how many dress and/or travel are great. Questions about sports medicine resources, out of season training, support for athletes are great.

I would steer away from questions that ask about other recruits or discuss pre reads and support unless it is brought up by the coach. Your daughter should ask what are the next steps in the process for me. And what timeline do you typically have for completing your 2024 class. Your daughter can ask for clarification on how the pre read process works if the coach indicates that a pre read is the next step and can ask what happens after a successful pre read, if the coach states that a pre read is your daughter’s next step. Coaches will make it clear if they want your daughter to submit for a pre read so if they don’t mention it then understand that is your answer.

She can mention her goals for her next set of races and ask for input regarding goals but I would not encourage asking coaches to provide a set time to garner support or not, nor would I push for a pre read or coach support if it isn’t brought up by the coach. No need to mention supported applications if coach hasn’t brought up pre read process.

For the four schools where she had the pre read already I would certainly make them priority visits and directly ask what is the next step in the process and what round would they suggest she apply in. If they mention ED or REA then I would say she would ask if that would be with full support.

Best of luck and hopefully she finds her fit soon

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1189

If possible, see if your daughter can meet and chat with a current team member face to face… students tend to be way more candid about the team culture, both good and bad. Get contact info- great to have someone you can reach out later

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1190

Agree! Many coaches set up to have a current student give my daughter a tour of the athletic facilities or meet up at a coffee place on campus to chat. It was great to get a feeling for the team and team culture.

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1191

I agree with @GKmom23 's advice regarding which questions to ask, and which to skip.

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1192

I know there are couple of Tufts and MIT swimmers training with Harvard this summer. I bet there are swimmers from other of these high academic schools in the Boston for internships. Harvard seems to be the gatherer of many of these swimmers since a D3 coaches are not allowed to coach off season.

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1193

I am concerned with the sheer amount of travel during the summer visit. The US is pretty big! I realize you are making the big trip here, but a swim meet in California and a swim meet in Florida plus trying to visit colleges all over the country within a few weeks is pretty intense. Not to mention is your daughter used to outdoor meets and long course events? Personally, I would do two meets in California and drop the Florida meet, especially since no Florida colleges are on your list and it’s going to take up some time getting there, time change, and getting used to a new outdoor facility.

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1194

Agreed. Where you swim the meets does not matter as long as there is reasonable competition. There will be lots of great meets in CA - or in an area worth a visit for that matter - that will get the job done.

I don’t know what OP intends…. Maybe they are leaving the college visits for August? Swim will be wrapped up by the end of July/first week of Aug. Otherwise, how do you keep up with the training required to drop the times?

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