Sectionals are mid July so if no other meets scheduled after that, maybe OP plans on college tours then? I agree with keeping meets in CA.
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The Florida meet is about nine days after sectionals - July 25-29 per the Alto meet schedule. Those are two multi-day long course meets across the country in a short period of time.
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Thanks for your collective feedback.
The college tour will be pretty intense in the northeast, followed by a day in LA in July The schedule of the meets is simply set by her team, and probably a great experience since she’s never participated to a meet in the US, and she’s excited to be training with D1/D3 college/college bound swimmers throughout July, which she’s done elsewhere in previous years.
With regards to the coach meeting questions, of course her questions will be slightly different for each coach. However, because we’re late in this process and several of her teammates have secured offers, she certainly feels very motivated to use this opportunity to not only better understand the school, the team and the coach, what she can contribute to the team and the school, but also to seek as much clarity as possible, especially where she sees the strongest swimming & academic fit. For those schools, she really wants to ask honest questions more easily discussed in person, and come out of the meeting with a very clear understanding of where her chances stand in terms of competing for that coach come 2024. Where it makes sense, she believes it’s better to ask now, rather than if/when another coach gives her 7 days to make a decision
These are coaches she has had ongoing communications with, right? Some of these questions would be OK in the context of an organic conversation. But in the aggregate, they strike me as very “what can you do for me?” rather than inquiring “what is the team like, and how can I fit in?”
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Is she visiting the schools she has already recieved pre read results from? At this point those should be the priority.
I would strongly caution against pushing the issue of coach support and pre reads with schools that have not approached the issue prior to the visit.
Have the coaches confirmed meeting with her during the school tours?
Trust me, coaches will make sure she is aware of the pre read process if they plan to present her information to admissions for a pre read. Once results come back coaches will address how she is to process through the admissions/application process. Simply asking for her next steps will be sufficient in determining where she stands.
Being overly aggressive asking to confirm the level of support, asking directly about other recruits and pushing for explicit examples of recruiting results will not shine a positive light on your daughter and could lead to very uncomfortable visits for you, her and the coach.
Remember no response is a response, especially by june/July before senior year. Coaches will be sure your daughter knows what is next if they want to present her for a pre read and if they want to support her application - it will be clear.
Again, I wish you nothing but the best but I really think you may be focusing on the wrong things during your visits and possibly on the wrong schools - focus on those coaches that are showing your daughter attention and support through this process.
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The dialogue is fully engaged with every supportive coaches where she passed pre-reads. She’s very good at establishing a simple and honest contact with all the coaches she’s talked so far
her main challenges being
- connect with new head coaches replacing previous head coaches with whom she was in active dialogue
- manage the delayed timeline of the NESCAC pre-read/commitment process
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Are you visiting those schools with the positive pre read results?
It appears NESCACs can submit for pre reads on July 15 so the delay isn’t too significant and your daughter should know if she is submitting prior to her final swim races.
Don’t forget to have fun and enjoy the chaos a bit
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indeed we’re very much looking forward to this extended family outing. she will meet with all but one of her positive discussion/pre-reads before the mid July, with the last one in August.
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Submission 7/15, results starting 8/1
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The “where am I on your list questions” are fine, but after the preread. So the sequencing usually is:
Coach tells recruit that coach is submitting for pre-read. If no such request by August 1, move on. The recruit is no longer a recruit, or way down the depth chart where a lot of drop outs need to occur prior to the ED submission date.
Post preread, assuming positive. Coach will do 1 of three things. 1. Call you quickly, (a) tell you that you that you are a top recruit, maybe invite you for an OV, (b) tell you you are getting full support if you apply ED, or (c) give you results but are noncommittal about next steps. In the case of “c”, asking for where you stand would be appropriate. You might not like the answer though. 2. Call you later (say after 2 to 3 weeks after pre-read submitted) with the 3 possibilities above. Sometimes it indicates a lack of interest, sometimes it is because of AO delays or coach having time or time management issues. 3. You get ghosted. No call after 3 weeks. You are likely way down on the depth chart, although a call with “where do I stand questions” would not hurt. You have nothing to lose.
During the OV, if there is one, the coach may give you an “offer” or may be noncommital. I think it would be appropriate to talk to the coach about your prospects then.
In any step, if the coach really wants you, they will be proactive in telling you. Most will be honest if you are down their list. The tough cases are the bubble recruits, say you are #7 out of the 5 spots the coach can support. The coach has an interest to keep you engaged, but cannot commit to an offer. You then have the possible hard choice of taking an “exploding” offer from School B before School A can commit to you. The only thing you can do is tell School A that you have a time limited offer from School B, and see if they can move faster.
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Spot on!! Such a great explanation of how things go at this stage.
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Based on this—“The college tour will be pretty intense in the northeast, followed by a day in LA in July”—it looks like the plan is to go to the NE in early July, followed by heading back briefly to LA and then to Sectionals in NorCal in mid-July, followed by a Florida meet that starts 9 days after the final day of the Sectionals meet.
I don’t know how a training plan aimed at peaking for one of those meets will work out given all the travel involved.
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When does your daughter arrive to train?
college visits will be wrapped up by end June, except for 1 school in early July with pre-read already passed, and one school in early August with pre-read already passed.
The whole of July will be training and racing.
Couple issue with the suggested timeline
- our travel schedule will not allow for post pre-read OV and further in person dialogue
- D24 expects she would pass any pre-read for the schools on her list, because her expected IB are one step from full marks
- that leaves very little time for her to inquire about her rank positioning on each coach’s list, between 15th June and 1st Aug
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Does she know where she stands with the schools where she’s passed the preread? In my experience offers came pretty much immediately after hearing the results of the preread.
My question was kind of rhetorical, you don’t need to answer to us, but your daughter should/could be focusing on that question.
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Could coaches be waiting? Many schools aren’t out yet and other recruits may not have transcripts ready yet.
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why does she need to inquire about “rank” during in person meetings prior to even submitting for a pre read? Why the focus on between june 15 and aug 1? It would make much more sense to focus on the academics, location, fit of the school, and questions about the swimming and athletic programs during the in person visit and then if asked to submit for a pre read ask about next steps once results are shared - this is easily a phone call or zoom call conversation.
at the schools she has already passed pre reads, during visits it would make sense to ask next steps. or to reach out now to the coaches and ask next steps since they already shared the positive results.
don’t stress about pre reads and support and admissions during the visits, use that time to get a feel for the campus - both the athletic, the academic, and the social side. focus on fit and feel when actually on the campus. the admissions questions and such are easily handled later, but fit and feel you can’t really replicate
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not sure about that. we did a huge east coast visit this time last year at many of the schools on the OPs list and all had already discussed pre reads with us prior to the visit and DD had submitted materials and was getting results already at all but the NESCAC schools. I believe all coaches at a school, regardless of sport, follow a very similar timeline and process when it comes to formal pre reads and admissions.
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D24 will be visiting schools and meeting with many coaches in person for the very first time, and most likely the only time before an offer is hopefully made. She wants to use that opportunity to present herself and her ability to both develop and contribute, learn about the school, the program, both the academic and the athletic fit. She’s a very straight shooter, and wants to use that opportunity to advance her understanding of where things stand in earnest. She understands that the questions she’ll be asking depend very much on how far the process has gone for every school, but definitely wants to have a very thorough temperature check of the likelihood of being recruited at each school, because she fondamentally believes she will pass every pre-read, and really wants to know how much each coach likes her. in truth, every coach she’ll meet will have an idea of how keen he/she is about recruiting D24. In that sense, she believes it’s a fair question to ask the majority of coaches she’ll meet.
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I think it would be best to format the questions in a way that shows her interest but down’ seem demanding. Instead of “where do I rank on your list?” ask “Can you tell me how the process works? Do you have a limited number of swimmers you can support?” (of course there is, but playing dumb is a gentler way of asking). I would not ask the coach about dynamics outside of swimming, or team personality make up (okay to ask if there are as many seniors as freshmen).
I think she’ll find the coaches to be spilling info without having to ask too much. They love to talk about how many recruits they have coming and how strong the team will be, how beautiful the school is or how the soccer team gets more money than the swim team. She can also ask some of the more direct questions in a follow up email if the coach didn’t share. She can ask about traveling and whether they do a meet on just one very long day or is it a weekend, etc. Social talk, but not drilling.
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