One more tip about visiting schools in June: we did that as well and because my daughter was still training, we asked the schools we were visiting if there are any open swim times that she can swim. One Ivy and one Nescac school told us that’s a possibility and she was able to work out.
Between the YMCAs nearby and a swim team in the same city it’s doable to swim (but needed a lot of coordination)
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Thanks for the tip. Indeed, she’ll be able to swim with the squad in Canada, which is probably the most practical way to meet coaches, the team, and learn about how they practice. it is also the best way for coaches to watch a potential recruit interact with the team. She would love to be able to do that at every school visit.
Things may have changed, and I know that above is Canada, and it could vary by sport and Division, though I do recall that one of my kids was on campus (D1) for a detailed specific visit that the coach was nice enough to organize for us. School was in session which was very beneficial as they were able to check out classes, etc. and the coach stated that they were not allowed to practice with the team, it was against NCAA Rules.
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I believe d2 is the only division that allows for training with the current team and coach during a visit. not sure on naia though
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Yes I agree. I don’t think my daughter was allowed to swim with the team. There were some ‘open swim’ times at the college pool so she was able to check out the facilities etc. In addition, since OP is visiting schools in June, before the official visits, I assume she wants to keep swimming which was our situation as well.
When my daughter did an official she was able to swim captains practice but I don’t think she was allowed to swim with the team.
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Yes, kids were invited team to “captain’s” practices, but they were not even allowed to play catch.
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What you stated above is my general understanding.
I can understand that the OP 's daughter would like to keep training/swimming while on this trip.
I was only commenting as he seemed to say or expect and hope that the coaches would be watching the recruit practice with the team, which caught me as something that would not typically happen.
My experience was a few years ago and was a top D1 team for a different sport, and this school visit was set up just for my kid while school was in session. If I remember correctly, the coach did not want them at the team practice, even if just watching, due to NCAA rules, which is why I commented.
For the OP, in June I am assuming that school is out so it may be an informal captains practice or volunteer open swim/training on your own.
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D3 also allows this if team captains run the practice, not the coach, and by invitation.
Some D1 schools offer invitation-based, paid clinics based on pre-read information, but not all. The current team members don’t swim with the participants per NCAA rules.
At visits that are parent-arranged/offered by admissions departments, a coach who is interested will offer to meet or communicate with the swimmer after the programs following swimmer outreach. If they don’t respond, then the swimmer isn’t a recruiting priority IOE.
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I think others here have raised some concerns about this approach and attitude, and how this could be off-putting. I think you might be missing some of the subtleties and nuances of that advice.
Similarly, coaches have probably already indicated to a significant degree what their interest (or lack thereof) may be, but there may be subtleties and nuances that you are not picking up on, or choosing to ignore. If there are four positive pre-reads, but no offers made yet, that’s a bit unusual. They’re holding off for a reason. Maybe other recruits are a priority or maybe they sense their program is not a priority for your daughter.
Recruiting is a bit of a dance. From my experience, coaches don’t want to commit to an offer unless they know that they’re one of the PSA’s top choices. So, there’s a bit of a “I might like you if you like me” thing that goes on.
Related to that: how much of a “straight shooter” is your daughter planning on being when coaches start asking her questions? It’s a two-way street. If coaches are indeed interested, they are going to want to gauge her interest. (And if they’re not, the meeting will be more generic and informational.) Does she plan on telling certain schools that she would only attend if she receives full coach support, and otherwise won’t even be applying, not even to try to get in on her own and be a walk-on? Is she really interested in spending four years in rural Iowa or location X? Somebody coming later to the recruiting game who hasn’t established a longer period of communication is going to have a higher barrier to convince a skeptical coach of their genuine interest.
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Glad to hear your D has had positive pre reads! Hope those turn into offers and that your D has thought through the various possibilities in the timing of offers. She may be presented with an exploding offer and may need to decide on an offer before she hears back from other programs.
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IIRC, the recruits may be allowed to participate in a captains’ practice, but the coaches are not allowed to watch. My daughter went to one D3 school and was supposed to join a captains’ practice but it rained so they did something else instead. For the D2 school, the coach told them to bring sticks and gear but then found out that she couldn’t run the practice and since there wasn’t an official team yet (it was to be a new team the following year) they couldn’t practice at all because of insurance issues.
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The comment about training in Canada was simply an observation of how the process can be much more natural/easier when not facing demanding NCAA rules.
There was much debate about needing to get this process started earlier which we more than agree with, but D24’s friend just got the opposite… Coach reached out of the blue 2 weeks ago, offered spot after 3 zoom calls with coach & swimmers. Great lesson for D24 in the velocity at which a coach can “want you”. Incidentally, this school is #1 in their division.
The more difficult process for D24 includes traveling around the world to meet a coach who is leaving, or changing itinerary to try to meet with a newly appointed head coach in the midst of her college visits. It’s certainly a journey!! Of course, some commentator will tell us that’s because we’re chasing the wrong school/coach/program
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I hope you are able to take a few minutes to relax during your whirlwind tour! My daughter definitely had coaches who became interested in her during the summer. It will all work out! I hope you will let us know how the visits go!
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she definitely has very good schools where she passed the pre-read and is hopeful, and couple more where she’s hopeful to get confirmation she’ll get invited for pre-reads. In some cases, she’s fairly confident to get an offer, others she knows she’s a border line case, and it will take a mixture of luck, coach liking, and serendipity to obtain an offer. That’s a good reflection of what real life is about.
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How do that swimmer’s times in their top 3 events stack up against times in the conference championship meet for that school and overall? I suspect that the lesson can be found there.
Incidentally, another poster already stated back in February that coaches would have reached out to your daughter on their own if her times were at the level you were saying they were then (which it turns out they weren’t.)
[edit to add:]
It’s not too difficult to figure out what sort of times would excite a coach: As many in this thread with specific swim knowledge have stated, times that would score points in the conference championship are a good indicator. Looking at Middlebury’s recruits for 2023 for example, spot-checking the first two listed, one has PBs in her best stroke in 50/100/200 that would have placed 13th/8th/6th in the NESCAC championship this year (and 3rd/1st/1st on Midd). The other would have placed 14th/7th/5th in NESCAC (2nd/1st/1st on Midd) in her best stroke.
Recruiting Commitments
Visits can be a handy opportunity to directly ask admission if one’s grades would pass pre-read. D24 confirmed that her grades would pass at 2 NESCAC. One senior admission officer said her grades would pass every pre-read in NESCAC. That confirms our expectation, but also helps if D24 ends up having to apply for these schools outside the recruiting route.
This statement will be confusing to future readers. The purpose of the preread is to find out if you pass it; I’ve never heard of someone going on a tour and discussing this info with admissions before the preread occurs!
I also do not think that a blanket statement of all NESCACs can be made; grades may pass, but that does not mean guaranteed admissions. Holistic admissions account for much more than just grades, and admissions is highly competitive at all these schools, so that statement just cannot be interpreted as a guarantee of admittance. I can’t imagine a dean at one school would want to speak for all schools.
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The discussion was a generic one about what is required to pass pre-read at specific schools, and both admission officers were quite clear about what they were looking for. only sharing what was said in the context of pre-read.
Agree 100%. We did quite a few admissions tours where they had very little idea at all about the athletic and pre read process. We found that typically only one person in admissions handled athletics and only that person really had any insight on the process. They never said anything close to guaranteeing passage prior to the formal submission and certainly never provided any info about anything at another school
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To be clear for future readers, passing a preread has pretty much no correlation with one’s chances during regular admissions.
As an illustration, probably 85% of Williams’ applicants are “qualified”, or within range, and would pass a preread. However, only 10% will be admitted without coach support.
Also, as others have said, visits are NOT a handy opportunity to ask an admissions officer if one’s grades would pass a preread. I cannot imagine admissions talking to the general public about that! Admissions only talks to coaches about prereads, even with kids who are actually receiving prereads, let alone kids who are not going through the preread process.
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