This part is potentially confusing. How does this help? Passing a pre-read means that you have no barrier to admission with coach support of the application. It doesn’t speak to odds of admission without that (other than knowing that you are a qualified candidate along with many, many others who may or may not get in.)
[edit: I was apparently posting at the same time, and pretty much just repeated what cinnamon1212 did in the first half of their post.]
I can see an AO making an offhand remark about whether a recruit with GPA X and SAT/ACT Y would pass a preread if say we are talking 3.9+ and 1500/33+. Anything at or above the median accepted student (or maybe even the 25% percentile) is probably sufficient. The OP however attaches way too much importance to this. It sounds like OP’s kid has great academic qualifications, so that is not the issue for her. The issue is her athletic ability relative to other recruits. For her, it is not whether she will pass a preread, but whether she ranks high enough athletically that a coach would submit a preread and then where she is on the depth chart.
Hitting parameters for a positive preread means nothing other than the recruit will not be an auto-reject. They will still be competing with thousands of similarly qualified non-recruit applicants.
Passing a pre-read is presumed if you have high stats. It means nothing without coach support. Barring some Hail Marys thrown in the mix, pretty much everyone applying to selective schools would pass a pre-read.
As also stated, coaches may have 40 or 50 girls do pre-reads; of those, a handful gets coach support. So at this point, trying to get a pre-read is likely indicative that even if you do finagle a pre-read, you are likely not anywhere near the coach support list.
Did this conversation actually during an admissions tour or admissions interview? If so please share what was actually said by the school rep - you don’t have to name the school.
We found all admissions tours were given by students who really had no clue about the admissions process. All but one (non nescac or UAA school) admissions interviews had absolutely nothing to do with athletics and were instead a place for my daughter to share about herself and her academic goals and for her to learn more about the academic side of things.
Even in meetings with coaches, no one ever stated that due to stats my daughter was guaranteed to pass pre reads at their school, much less at any other school. Coaches looked at her academic info early on and were able to see that she had a gpa and rigor that would be favorable and continued discussions. Coaches continually said all pre read info comes from admissions and didn’t share any insight until the official results were shared.
Please clarify your statements because at face value they appear very misleading and could actually harm some other potential student athletes with the misinformation
Not necessarily - I know some fantastic students that were not green lighted after a formal pre read. Just this past year my daughter had teammates who did not pass pre reads at UAA schools and a NESCAC school. All found great homes in very comparable schools but a pre read isn’t just a formality for many potential student athletes. Many times they are either red lighted or have conditions like changing a class or retaking SAT/ACT
If you submit a 33+ and a 3.9 above with strong rigor, lots of APs/Honors, a student is more likely than not going to pass a pre read. I certainly know students who were told " you need a 33". But my statement assumed the athlete has those qualifications or something comparable. If you don’t have strong A, B and C then yes your pre read may be iffy.
The entire point is most strong/high stats students who apply to a college would pass an athletic pre-read. But passing a pre-read without coach support puts you back in the mix with the 10% acceptance rate.
PS I totally agree with your comment above about how tours go with students. I never can imagine diving into details after a group presentation or a tour.
It’s important to highlight the above. If a coach has been at a school for awhile with a consistent liaison from Admissions, they’ll have a good sense of what the pre-read feedback will be. But they won’t know for certain. (And once the coach gets word from Admissions about pre-read results, the prospective recruit doesn’t get that info from Admissions—it is interpreted/explained by the coach.)
I suppose a representative from Admissions could similarly provide an unofficial assessment of the hypothetical outcome of a pre-read . But that is not the usual way things are done, so, like other posters here, I’m wondering what really transpired.
In any case, focusing on an unofficial pre-pre-read doesn’t seem to be a good use of time. An interested coach will lead that process and request the documentation as needed. It would be better to find coaches who are interested rather than send full transcripts and other materials to coaches who are not and who have not requested them.
I agree for the most part though I do think it would depend a bit on both the sport and where they sit athletically on the recruiting board as well as their academic standing. For one of my kids, coaches did say they did not have any concerns and would not have any issues presenting them to admissions and this was at the very top academic schools.
That said, the OP comment about asking admissions and getting confirmation from an AO that they would pass pre-read, before any coaches input, does seem a bit unusual particularly if it was a top NESCAC.
Good point, agree.
Why would they do that? If it were that easy, everyone - not just athletes - would be asking for a pre-read from the admissions office. “Do you think I can get in? Here are my hs transcript, scores.” OP can ask the AO, but he’s going to get the standard response of “the average gpa is X and the average test score is Y. Our acceptance rate is 18% and for international students it is 5%.”
The fact is that most of the applicants, not just athletes, for even top schools are qualified and can do the work, but there just aren’t enough spots. Their applications need something else, like a coach’s tip, to put them over the top with the admissions office. Therefore, most of the pre-reads are going to be approved, but that doesn’t mean they are going to get in.
From the beginning of this (and the other) threads, I never felt the OP’s daughter wouldn’t pass a pre-read but also thought the point of the thread was to find a swim school where the coach would give her that hook. She can apply to any of these schools and have a very good chance to get in, but not a sure thing.
In response to your comment regarding your daughter’s assumptions about upcoming and remaining NESCAC schools/visits -
At this point - less then a week away from July before senior year there should be no personal interpretations. Coaches know who they are submitting for initial pre reads on July 15th and who they are extending offers to. Unless a coach has directly told your daughter what to submit, how to submit it and when to submit it by then the school is in the unlikely for a pre read category and best to move on from the thought of a supported ED application. Love the schools that love your daughter and see if those are good fits, get on campus, meet coaches, explore locations and courses. Anything else is risking the chance of those initial positive pre reads moving on to other athletes for initial offers. If something surprising happens later, fantastic but if your daughter has the goal of swimming competitively in college she really needs to look at the options she has now and truly evaluate those schools and see if one is a solid fit and communicate regularly with those coaches. I would hate to see her miss out on a fantastic opportunity
It is personal interpretation because there are many schools/many coaches involved. one of her NESCAC pre read request just came in today, so we have no control over each coach’s timeline, not to mention coaches who have been officially appointed this week, or will be expected to be appointed sometimes in July. The NESCAC pre-read schedule starts 15 Jul/1 Aug depending on the school/coach. She’s conscious of not being the top recruit for many of these schools, given that her good friend’s already secured strong support from several D1 and D3 schools with similar academic profiles. She accepts that she’ll probably need some luck in the rings of musical chairs being played out.
At this juncture, she
passed 3 pre-read, has 2 more confirmed, and is expecting 1-3 additional pre-read. But as many of you have already commented, it is the strong coach support count that matters. The journey continues, and the coming weeks will rapidly shorten/clarify her list.
Has she been offered a spot at McGill? Sounds like things are moving in a very positive direction! Best of luck
@GKmom: both the visit and the coach meeting went well at McGill. However the process is quite different in Canada, and somehow reversed. Her current expected IB grades assure her of admission (barring any special accident), but the coach only confirms his recruits starting in January, except for a subset of swimmers who make high cuts, closer to D1 equivalent.
Because of rolling admission and differences between academic departments/schools, some top grades athletes will already have been admitted after November, but yet unconfirmed for their recruit spot until January. Of course, those with Top Grades AND D1 cuts will be confirmed as soon as December.
This raises an interesting potential dilemma if she secures coach support at a US school : D24 may have to decide between assured acceptance at McGill with no spot confirmed and a US school with ED/Coach support/Spot confirmed
She should still apply to McGill as early as she can get the app in. Then, if she does verbally commit to an ED school, submit that app and await acceptance in mid-Dec. If accepted ED, she should pull her McGill app/maybe acceptance by then (IMO of course, I know Canadian school rules are different).
It would be trickier if she verbally committed to an ED school and the McGill coach offers her a slot by Mid-Dec, …what would she do in that case?
She will apply to McGill in any case, and find out about swim spot in January.
In the meantime, she will hopefully get a supported ED spot in a US school with strong academic fit… things will become much clearer during July as to whether she will be able to secure that dream coach support. Fingers crossed
Is there a walk-on possibility, or are all swim team members recruits? If McGill has swim recruits that are U.S. D1 equivalent, making the squad sounds like it might be more difficult than portrayed earlier on this thread—I think people have been assuming that this was an almost-certain fallback position?
And the Toronto women’s team won the U Sports national championship this season (McGill was 3rd), so would presumably be tougher still.
It’s great your D potentially has some options. And it must be a relief for her to know she has near assured acceptance to McGill.
However, if she does receive coach support from a US school and goes ED, she should really be committed to that option. If she is accepted to the ED school (if she goes ED1) then she will hear back sometime in December and she will need to commit before hearing back from the McGill coach.
absolutely, and this point is exactly what’s pushing D24 to amend her application strategy, because she wants to limit her US ED recruiting to a school where she finds at least a matching academic/vibe fit compared to McGill which she liked very much.
From what I recall about the schools she is in conversation with, they seem rather different from McGill - LAC, not in big cities. I get that people can adapt and she can likely thrive in a number of different settings but I would definitely encourage visiting the schools where she is most likely to get an offer in order to sense the “vibe.” On paper, many LACs can seem similar, but my D had very different opinions about them once she visited. Also, the reasons she felt more positively/negatively about a school where not really apparent until she visited.
Good luck to your D.
McGill has almost 40,000 students (undergrad + grad). Some intro classes have 600-700 students or more. Minimal advising. No on-campus housing after the first year. Central urban setting. Definitely a lot different than the typical U.S. LAC experience!
From 2015:
“Things aren’t much better at McGill University, where Marcus Kolber, a recent graduate, says his course on introduction to molecular biology had nearly 1,000 students.
The same full-year course has 705 students enrolled in the 2014-15 academic year, but there’s also another section with 439 students, according to the school’s course registration system.
“Essentially, there were times you couldn’t get a seat in the largest lecture hall at McGill,” Kolber says…
…Active student participation is vital to a liberal arts education. Filling auditoriums and checking attendance boxes during routine tutorials dilutes that essential experience, leaving students like myself feeling as if we’re just a number.
Another consequence is that our country’s highest-rated institutions seem like factories churning out diplomas.“