I would say though with our first kid, we did not have the benefit of experience (or even know about sites like CC) we went through similar ups and downs as OP and over optimistic expectations. She ended up at a great NESCAC program athletically and academically, so it all turned out. We were a lot smarter and savvier with child 2 in terms of expectations and asking the right questions.
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I’m happy to see the changes to OP’s post, which to me means he’s learning through the process and adjusting the search as he goes along. And I agree with @BKsquared that we all learned a lot as we went through the process.
Right after my daughter signed her NLI I read an article about the coach at Louisville and how mean she was to her players and all I could think was “OMG, we never asked that question and now a mean coach will leave my daughter crying on the floor at an airport! What have we done?!” You can’t know everything at the beginning or even a good way through.
At the beginning, OP was obsessed with the July 1 pre-read date. He’s now learned a lot about that July 1 date for reviews and in fact that this year the July 1 date changed to Aug 1 for many of his target schools.
I’m still hopeful it will work out. Things do seem to do that for most kids. Will she end up at a top 20 school and able to swim? Maybe not but she’ll have the info to make an informed decision and maybe end up at a smaller school with a good program and good academics.
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This
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The thing I’ve been most surprised by in this entire thread has been the current coach seemingly missing from the entire process. Maybe this is due to being international?
In our experience, current coaches often help shape the process accurately for recruited athletes. We’ve definitely seen families/athletes not want to follow the advice and guidance of current coaches, but for those who are willing - the process has seemed more streamlined and less stressful.
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Ours is unfortunately not involved in any way, but doesn’t really get our academics vs swimming priorities either, so….
I think most swimmers are on their own. Maybe if you swim for a nationally recognized team is different but the vast majority of swimmers come from teams that are regularly sending kids to P5s or Ivies or even high academic D3s.
I hope others will chime in with their experiences.
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I mostly work with US based students and it’s pretty uncommon that a HS or club coach is involved in recruiting efforts. Coaches often have no idea how recruiting works, and coaches are often not a good judge of what level the kid can play at.
Some HS/club coaches might have college coach friends/contacts, but a side effect of that situation (which I’ve seen firsthand) is that students sometimes give greater weight to that set of schools/coaches. Lots of moving parts in recruiting, and having someone else involved can be unhelpful and/or confusing for the athlete.
At some point, a college coach who is interested in an athlete might contact a HS or club coach as a type of reference check, but that too doesn’t happen all that much (IMO that should happen 100% of the time!).
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I’m assuming this is swimming-specific. For a sport like lacrosse, the club coach is very often the primary initial contact with college coaches for recruiting purposes. High school coach, much less so.
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Super helpful to hear this. Seems to be very sport specific then, as club coaches very much involved in athletic recruiting in our experience (gymnastics). High school coaches very much not in the conversation at all.
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Swim coach was very involved in recruiting if that is what the kid wanted… having said that, club team was well-respected and sends kids to D1 teams frequently. (HS coach could also be involved if kids wanted, but club team was more involved).
I think in junior year, the kids fill out a survey if they are interested in being recruited and academic profile, etc. This went along with goal-setting for the kids… so part of the process.
Interesting thought I’d the coach is involved or not.
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Good input. Coach involvement in recruiting would seem to be somewhat sport dependent.
Most sports now have a strong club or travel influence though that varies by sport too, as mentioned above with swimming, LAX and gymnastics.
Although swimmers have a strong club identity, I would imagine swimming is a bit like T&F in that the coaches can see the times, so they know where they rank.
Whereas some other some sports, there can be metrics (i.e. physical size, 40 speed, vertical leap, pitching speed, etc. ), but many coaches still like to see the kid in action to give them the eyeball test as it is somewhat subjective and based on the level of competition they face.
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Club soccer in the U.S. is very different from this. For girls’ ECNL club teams (top-level league) at least, they are very focused on getting the teams to national/regional showcases to play in front of college coaches, and making sure players get on the field if a particular coach is watching. Many teams have recruiting coordinators. And the coaches are certainly very aware of what level of play the players should/could target.
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I think that for the sports where club teams are highly developed/sophisticated (ie lax/soccer/crew/squash/fencing/etc), club coaches can play a major role in facilitating recruiting, especially during those periods where college coach contact with athletes/families is prohibited. Club coaches in these sports can be knowledgeable and by virtue of seeing a new crop of hopefuls every year enhances their experience and benefits those going thru recruiting process in general. Our HS didn’t have many sports, so club sports were the only option. In our sports, club coaches had great connections/perspective/advice with regard to college athletic recruiting.
I wonder if the OP was done a disservice by many of the obviously experienced posters who were polite and encouraging even when the OP’s statements consistently demonstrated a poor understanding of the process, and how good his daughter needed to be to make it thru (or at least to first base). Few, with the exception of @Yolo2, said what needed to be said.
The process of recruitment, while stressful, is really quite straightforward if one’s goals/aspirations are set properly. Casting a wide net and being realistic about one’s abilities are essential. The OP never did either of these things.
As it stands now, a lot of valuable time has been wasted, the OP is no closer to a recruitment offer (but is more knowledgeable about the lack of walk on opportunities), and his list of schools has only gotten more rejective. Hope and luck are not strategies. If swimming in college (varsity or club), it important, there is still a lot of work to be done.
At the beginning of this thread, I said, I hoped the OP’s understanding of the Canadian admissions process was sound. While it may very well be, it doesn’t look like swimming will be part of that option.
Again, trying to be helpful, but happy to be impolite/repetitive, the OP needs to find some slower swimming schools, but it is possible these schools may be less prestigious or in remote areas. Single sex colleges may be more prestigious/academically elite and have varsity swimming, but lack in other important areas. Some of larger Canadian programs may be easier to get into, but their swimming needs may only be for a manager.
While compromises may have to be made, ALL of these options are better (as far as getting in is concerned) than applying as an unhooked international student whose main extracurricular is not relevant. I am still confused that the schools on the non-swim list are more rejective than the ones on the swim list. The OP’s next lesson in the US college admissions game (applying unhooked) may be more disappointing that the one he just experienced.
I feel the OP did not listen to much of the good advice he got on this thread, so for better or worse, he is where he is. I wonder what lessons he learned and what/how he will do things differently for his younger daughter?
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Throughout this thread, we have learned a tremendous amount about the recruiting process, and respectful of advice and opinions. indeed, it took time to absorb certain parts, and indeed D24 still to this day doesn’t believe some of the posts suit her, including seeking to be recruited at a women’s college, applying to swim schools at less academically rigorous school when her stated #1 priority remains education, or openly releasing details of specific discussions and name a coach/school.
through this process, we’ve stayed away from being judgemental about the opinions of posters, some of whom feel more strongly about affirming their own beliefs than actually advancing the stated goals of a teenager.
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This thread is very addictive. People are so invested at this point!
Isn’t the bottom line that the swimmer is 100% assured of getting into McGill (whether swimming or not). So every other option has to be better FOR HER than McGill without swimming.
That is what I understand the situation to be and is reasonable! Single sex schools, lower academic schools with slower teams, clearly are not preferable to her.
I wish OP the best and am excited to hear where the swimmer ends up!
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Exactly! I can’t believe some posters are still berating OP and telling them to cast a wider net, even at this late stage of the game. Over and over and over! No wonder this thread is so long.
OP and his daughter have a list of schools that was built on academics and a few other factors. The list isn’t going to change, nor should it. At this point, they seem perfectly aware of the possible outcomes and are comfortable with them. Why can’t people respect their choices?
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I think a fair amount of the OP’s strategy/thinking doesn’t really make sense, but at this point advice is no longer terribly helpful. Whatever happens, happens. It may turn out well. It may not. That’s for the OP and his daughter to worry about, not us.
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That’s the thing though: we’d been told for months that both McGill and Toronto were locks for admission AND swimming, and that a very reachy U.S. list therefore made sense. It turns out at this late date that’s not the case.
Maybe things have changed, but we’d also been told multiple times about the central importance of swimming to the athlete’s college experience in multiple facets, and how they would consider it a “failure” to not secure a place on a varsity team.
(We’d also been told that the athlete had swim times that would score top 16 in various conference meets, including Ivy and NESCAC. This turned out not to be the case—but that’s a different subject.)
Bottom line: the narrative has not been consistent or entirely accurate. Even now there are questions about what the pre-read statuses are, and the information provided has left unanswered questions.
Posters who are acting in good faith to suggest strategies/alternatives that may check more boxes than the “no swimming” option shouldn’t be accused of somehow trying to advance their own agenda—if anything they are trying to reconcile competing goals with a realistic eye to the actual options available. And if the OP doesn’t like those suggestions, there will certainly be others who could benefit from them.
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I would likely not suggest anyone new to recruiting read through this thread as it may be more confusing than educational. While it’s great that CC has many parents who share their kids recruiting experiences (making for a powerful crowd shared resource), some parents/posters on this thread have become overly prescriptive and continue belaboring the same points. In the big picture, shepherding one’s kid/kids through recruiting does not make one an expert.
I hope all can agree that they wish OP’s D the best as the recruiting process continues to evolve.
Sure there are some club soccer team coaches (and lacrosse, or whatever other sport someone would like to cite) who can be helpful or engaged in an athlete’s recruiting process, but that’s not the norm IME. There is a local to me ECNL team that is specifically not helpful in recruiting. The number of women’s soccer players in ECNL who go on to play varsity soccer in college comprise a small proportion of the 35K plus women who are currently playing. Most high school players don’t have the luxury/privilege of a coach who can help in the recruiting process.
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That’s an n=1 anecdote that’s not very useful for a broader discussion. And just being on an ECNL club is very helpful for recruiting for the reasons I mentioned earlier. It gets the players in front of a lot of college coaches at showcases. It provides a baseline indication of talent level. And even if the teams only do the minimum of passing out team rosters with basic stats on the players at showcases, rather than specific recruiting guidance, that’s still a huge boost.
The number of women’s soccer players in ECNL who go on to play varsity soccer in college comprise a small proportion of the 35K plus women who are currently playing.
No stats cited. And players from ECNL clubs (and their associated ECRL teams) and DA clubs make up a high percentage of the players at the most competitive college programs. Just look at the clubs that players come from in the commitment announcements. For most of the D3 schools that the OP is targeting for swimming and non-swimming, this is certainly the case too.
[Edited to add]: as one example, see this article from five years ago: “For the fourth consecutive year, ECNL alums constitute the majority of women’s collegiate soccer players in the Pac-12. In 2018, ECNL Alums make up more than 60% of the entire Pac-12, and over 80% of the conference’s individual honorees.”
I’ve seen other stats saying that 80% of all female D1 players have ECNL experience.
Most high school players don’t have the luxury/privilege of a coach who can help in the recruiting process.
What’s the point here? High school players who aren’t playing high-level club soccer aren’t going to get recruited at all. I think it’s an unfair pay-to-play system, but it’s the reality.
And the club coaches know who has the talent and physical attributes for the next level. It’s pretty wild to suggest otherwise.
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