Oh I didn’t see that. Bonus times you only get to swim at high level meets if you have achieved a regular cut. Bonus times mean nothing on their own, but still, if she’s fast enough to get Phillips 66 bonus times, she is fast!
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That is exactly our follow up questions to your recommendation to attend these meets:
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D24 makes the junior cuts (18U Bonus), and is close to making the senior cut in 1-2 events.
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She will join practice with Alto California in the summer, and ideally join some of the California events (Phillips 66 and/or Speedo in California)
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So how does one go from “having the required time cuts” to joining these events?
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how does one signup? by contacting the organizers by email?
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join the meets attended by Alto team swimmers/coaches in July?
If you look at Alto swim club’s summer schedule, you will see that there are a few meets scheduled. If she puts up the times that you say she is capable of achieving, she will then be invited to Junior Nats and will then be in front of college coaches.
By the way, the team is very impressive so this should be a great experience for your daughter.
It does say a tryout is needed-has she already tried out and been given a team spot?
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Nothing is ever done by a swimmer or parent. She swims in meets, makes the cuts and the coaches from her team do all the registering.
Can you tell us what her time/best event is so we can help you?
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Bonus times are not cuts. They are the time required to swim extra events (usually two) once you have a cut and can enter the meet. The reason for this is so when swimmers take the time and money to attend such event they can get a little more than just a single event (this is the case for most. One, maybe two cuts)
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I will apologize but I want to laugh at this statement. I don’t think you understand the caliber of such a meet. It is Olympic level.
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I am so confused as well!
This!
This thread is clearly and exclusively targeted at D24 seeking to swim at D3/Ivy schools.
Your asking/recommending her to qualify for summer competitions with Olympic time cuts is inappropriate. She is only seeking to participate to suitable summer events she would qualify for, would help her college team candidacy, and is attempting to learn how to register for such events, simple questions.
For specific times, as previously stated, she would qualify for Speedo Summer Championships (Bonus 18U) as shown. If this time is insufficient to qualify for an event that would be of use to her, you can simply say so, without including comments such as “laugh at”, or repeatedly stating “you don’t understand”. I am an adult and can absorb such comments, but if they were directed directly to a teenage athlete, it could be shaming and hurtful
Apologies but what we are saying is we do not understand how you you are getting no notice at schools with the times you are stating your daughter has.
Could you please explain the swim meet format in your country? I can’t imagine the meet rules and structure are much different internationally.
Does your country have a junior national team? Send kids to the Pan Pacs? If she’s putting up those times, she should be highly ranked and recognized in your own country at national meets.
What are we missing here?
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No one is shaming a teenager here-we are impressed with the times. Saying “I don’t understand” is just that-we do not Understand. I will bow out of this conversation since I don’t seem to be understanding all the details so therefore any recruiting advice I am giving does not seem to be helping. Good luck to your daughter!
Nivo, we are really trying to help and I apologize if things are getting lost in translation so to speak.
First, we weren’t suggesting she join those meets. What I said is that Ivies want/look for Jr National times when screening recruits. Having those times goes a long way in getting the coach to respond to a swimmer. Some of these athletes will also be talking to top D3 schools at this point and are distracting them away from athletes like yours.
Re the bonus cut: I tried to explain above, but may was unclear. The cuts are the cuts. That is what is required to enter the meet. USA swimming publishes a second set of times (bonus) that are required to swim a limited number of additional events for which a swimmer may not have the required entry times. they are irrelevant.
In this case, the cut your D has is a Futures cut - which is great! Most swimmers never achieve that. Jr Bonus and Futures happen to be the same. There are 5 sites announced for this summer throughout the country all on the same date. This meet is typically the last chance to qualify for Summer Jrs as it happens right before.
Hope this helps.
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@NiVo What I see here are experienced posters trying to help but without the information they need to do so.
Swimming is not my sport, but there are people here with extensive experience in recruiting for that sport, and at the schools you seem to be targeting.
They can’t figure out why your daughter isn’t getting responses—whether the targeting is not correct or if something else is going on.
I think you could make this go a lot smoother if you listed your athlete’s events and marks . You can be approximate to maintain confidentiality.
Then, people can advise which schools and conferences are appropriate and which aren’t. They might also give ideas about schools you hadn’t considered.
My sport is track and field. If a recruit tells me they’re in the 4:15-4:20 range in the 1600 I can tell them exactly where they would be impact recruits, where they can at least expect replies, and where they shouldn’t bother. Others here can do the same for swimming.
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I agree with what politeperson is saying. CC is so fortunate to have posters like lkunk498 and Tonygrace sharing their swim recruiting knowledge. I personally have learned a great deal from their posts. One would pay thousands of dollars to a recruiting cowboy for this kind of info…I encourage OP to engage with them to help build a college list for recruiting, whether on this thread or via DM.
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D24 swimming times aren’t D1, but they match the PBs of many current D3/Ivy female swimmers. As a rough reference (not yet updated), this would qualify her for the Junior Bonus/Futures events.
50 S Free 27.67
100 S Free 58.68
100 L Free 1:00.35
200 L Free 2:13.69
1500 S Free 18:28.41
100 L Back 1:11.48
50 S Fly 29.45
Back to your suggestion, to participate in the Speedo Sectionals (13-16 Jul) and/or US Swimming Speedo Futures Event in 26-29 Jul 2023:
- do swimmers join these events in teams or individually
- do college coaches attend these events, or they are too low level and it is basically the last summer opportunity to register faster times before submitting the pre-reads and/or early round college applications?
- do her 2022 times correspond to her aspiration to swim for D3/Lower Ivy/LAC/NESCAC types of swimming programs
** D24 is getting responses, but they seem programmatic/cut n paste, and haven’t reached a level where they are personal, probably because there are hundreds of similar swimmers sending emails.
@NiVo it looks like she is almost there!
Futures:
50Free LCM: 27:39
100Free: LCM: 59:39
Times must be achieved in LCM (50 meters) or SCY (25 yards), no conversions accepted. “S” is SCM (25 meters, an uncommon pool size in the US) and “L” is LCM. SCY will be listed as “Y” in SwimCloud.
The fact she has not achieved Futures times yet will explain why she hasn’t found much traction with her list of schools yet. And as I mentioned the faster of the list are looking for Summer Jr times to recruit (26.59 50Fr/57.59 100Fr), but are watching/keeping in touch with '24s who have Winter Jr times (26.89/58.17).
As of right now she could swim at a Sectionals meet. I am not 100% sure on the SCM times for this meet, but assuming not, she only qualifies in the 100Fr (1:00.69). Often these meets allow you to swim a minimum of 4 events, even with one cut.
Swimmers are almost always entered in a meet by their coaches, and while a coach is required, per USA Swimming rules one will be assigned on deck to a swimmer with no coach. I don’t know the exact steps to enter the meet, I know of a couple of instances where a parent took their swimmer - they are entered as “unattached” - but these were not national meets. Maybe read through the meet packed of one of the meets and/or email the meet director for information.
Some college coaches will be at these meets. They will prioritize meet and location based on their own needs/budget/location. IMO they are not there to scout, but to look at and touch base with a swimmer they are already recruiting and it is not an important piece of the process. It would not hurt to email coaches and say “hey, I will be swimming at this meet and would love to connect if you will be there,” but I would not be too hung up on this piece. Prioritize the best meet for your swimmer. My swimmer opted to swim at a regional meet over attending Futures so he could swim his main event. Do what makes sense for your swimmer. Its important that they achieve the times, not where the achieve them.
If she is swimming with PASA in the summer, they have a lot of experience working with swimmers from Asia. I am sure she will be entered in all the appropriate meets but I would encourage you to reach out to your contact there for questions about logistics. Unfortunately this is not in my wheelhouse.
Unfortunately yes. The reality is that right now she only has a single sectional cut. And there are literally 1000s like her. As she gets faster and qualifies for higher level meets, she will stand out more, but the window is also closing and it is important to be realistic about the recruiting options.
This entire post just goes to illustrate how incredibly fast and deep USA Swimming is. I think this is hard to grasp coming from another country.
ETA - @Mwfan1921 I think I accidentally replied to you. Sorry!
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A team will take as many swimmers as they have. We’ve gone to JNats with 1 and we’ve gone with 10. We are a small team and it varies from year to year.
She could be a walk on swimmer at several. I think she is unlikely to receive a supported spot with her current times. @Lkunk498 what do you think?
After some details checks of her times, granted some are convertered because she only competes in meter races, her current status look as follows:
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Based exclusively on the recent 2022 Conference Championships
(Ivy/UAA/NESCAC/Centennial/SCIAC conferences respectively) -
Her best/most recent personal times would rank D24 in the Top16 of Ivy (1 event), UAA (1), NESCAC (2), Centennial (3), and SCIAC (3) annual championships and enable her to contribute championship points at a number of schools.
Accordingly, we remain convinced she has a chance at being recruited and doesn’t have to be only limited to the possibility of being a walk-on athlete for her target schools. Some are a stretch, of course.
is it not also important to account for the fact that we’re actually comparing the times of a high school junior who is still improving, with a college team of Freshmen to Seniors who have had substantially more time to develop.
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I’m going to jump back in and would also suggest looking at Liberty League and the NEWMAC as well. Wheaton College in the NEWMAC has a great coach and the women rank in Top 30 of D3 teams.
Remember, any student who is currently going through recruiting is also the same age as your daughter so the coaches will be comparing her times to them for team spots, so it is not important to note her age from a recruiting standpoint. As a proud parent, it always makes you feel great though!
Also, do not think walk-on is limiting in any way. I know gifted swimmers who were walk-ons at Cornell and Amherst; they are very much an equal part of the team and compete. They simply didn’t get the support of the coach during admissions because their great stats were just not what the coach was targeting as priorities for his team that year, so he used his slots on other swimmers.
One note -please make sure your daughter is clearly stating in the questionnaires/emails that these are SCM and LCM times. If coaches are quickly scanning and see times with an S, I am wondering if they just are thinking you are including SCY times?- Which would then appear very slow in sprint events.
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I don’t know swimming. But I do know that recruiting has become more competitive recently and I’m wondering if having a good time in 1 event is enough to get recruited at an Ivy. I’m guessing it isn’t at this point. Especially when you add in the extra eligibility + transfer portal.
Ive said this in other threads. Being a great student does NOT help you with Ivy recruiting. You can send them a 1600 sat score and they simply don’t care. They are very happy with a 1300/1250. They want amazing athletes.
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You are correct. Versatility is key. If you are good at 1 free, you also need to score in the 50 and/or 200 as well.
I read a great quote on here once and I wish I could remember the exact wording, but it was to the effect that parents always think their kids are better than they actually are academically and athletically. Coaches and admissions are comparing SO many students so they will view your student’s accomplishments through a harsher, more realistic lens. I will have to look for that quote as I’m sure I screenshotted it when we were going through the recruit gauntlet.
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It is great that she is considering all those conferences. I love the idea of looking at NEWMAC as well.
I am sure she will find a home somewhere. That is the beauty of swimming. There is a world of difference between the Williams team and the Hamilton team.
I hope you can spend some of your time in the US visiting colleges and meeting coaches in person. The right fit is what will make the experience a rewarding one.