Of course. That is the power of club sports. But we were talking about coaches helping with recruiting…reaching out to college coaches, helping with recruiting, etc. My only point was that HS and/or club coaches aren’t often involved IME (I always qualify things with IME), that’s different than what you are saying here about these kids playing in the right tourneys.
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Hey! Be nice to each other!!
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Reminder of ToS/forum rules of this site:
“Our forum is expected to be a friendly and welcoming place, and one in which members can post without their motives, intelligence, or other personal characteristics being questioned by others.”
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At this point, I care only about two things:
- where does D24 happily end up?
and
- does this thread hit 2,000 replies?
Let’s go! 
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I don’t thinks that’s true. At the very beginning OP was asking about Stanford and Cal and ‘wondering’ about being a walk on and I told him very bluntly that it wasn’t going to happen. I didn’t even know how good his daughter was but knew that if those top schools were even a possibility she’d already be on the radar. I suggested other D1 schools where she could be a walk on or even be recruited, OP wasn’t interested in hearing about other schools, in places where she could make the team.
He said very clearly that he was only interested in a top academic school, no women’s colleges, no D2.
Since McGill doesn’t require ED or excluding any of the US schools, the OP and D can keep looking and looking for swim schools past the ED deadline they want to. D, being a teenager, might change her mind and decide U of Idaho is just perfect, or something in Texas. Or she might stick with McGill even if the swimming doesn’t work out. Recruiting for most schools doesn’t stop on Sept 1.
One of my kids went from State of Florida to Wyoming. You can’t believe how many people said “WHERE?” like they didn’t even realize it was a state or that people live there. I imagine the people in the country OP is from really haven’t heard of many of these schools and OP knows which schools will work for his D and her future.
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I am curious if McGill was in @NiVo ‘s college grand tour? I knew nothing of McGill other than it’s in Canada and it’s well respected but I was listening to an episode of Your College Bound Kid today and they did a little preview of McGill, with one of the contributors having just visited.
I will be honest, it sounded…. horrendous? To each their own, but I just can’t see how someone who has a list full of small LACs could see it as an acceptable alternative.
Episode 341, if anyone is interested. You can catch the College Spotlight in the last 18 minutes.
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Definitely a difference in average class sizes compared to an LAC for one thing! From the McGill Engineering Department (credit to them for being honest here):
On average, how big can I expect my class sizes to be?
Class sizes vary depending on the course. For example, if you are taking freshmen courses such as Math, Physics, or Chemistry, you can expect very large class sizes (anywhere from 200-600 students). In terms of your Engineering courses, you can expect larger class sizes at the beginning of your program, with decreasing sizes as you progress. For example, your 200 level courses and some of your 300 level courses may have anywhere from 100-200 students, whereas most of your 300 and 400 level courses will reduce in size (60-90 students typically). Technical complementary courses, which are taken in the final years of your degree, can have even lower numbers, depending on the course (30-50 students on average).
A 400 level class of 75 students? That sounds bananas to me. And “even lower numbers of 50”?
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Thanks for clarifying re McGill.
The average class size at McGill is very different from liberal arts colleges, but comparable to global universities in Europe/Asia for science/engineering studies, or a Berkeley / Michigan in the same majors.
indeed, US liberal arts schools provide a more personal and caring environment, but another argument would be that kids grow faster in the larger schools.
These are all relevant factors in consideration, but only come into play when there are acceptance letters on the table. McGill’s key benefit in D24’s case is to provide 99% guaranteed acceptance, 100% French fluency upon graduation, 30%+ cheaper tuition, potential for 35k scholarship from her current domicile through a scholarship awarded to attendees of global T100 universities (which would apply to many universities n her list), and potentially swim on their team, all in a city she really liked. For this long list of reasons, it is for her the absolute best safety school.
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I think the one thing teenagers don’t have is experience and it isn’t clear to me if the goals being advanced on this thread are those of the kid or her parents.
Following this thread from the beginning, it seems what is preventing a wider net from being cast, and or having a realistic understanding of the actual athletic accomplishments necessary to recruited, is a lack of an honest discussion of how important the prestige of the school is. There are plenty of academically challenging schools with slower swim teams out there, but the OP seems to need prestige more than anything else. It feels like they think the athletic recruitment hook is a backdoor into an elite/prestigious school. While that may have been true 10 or 15 years ago, things have gotten so much more competitive today.
The swim and non-swim lists are high reach (for anyone), and I am especially surprised at experienced posters who suggest they are professional counselors not telling the OP they need to be more realistic, or expansive.
While the OP claims McGill is an acceptable backstop, it is so different than the rest of their list, and it seems inconsistent, or a less comfortable fit, than the “pooled” common elements of their rejective lists.
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one could argue that Berkeley/UCLA from her list are closer to McGill than to Grinnell / Colby. on the other hand, whomever can find a better an English language instruction safety school ranked T100 globally with a 99% certainty of admission is more than welcome to bring it up. There is no perfect safety school…
no question that D24’s two lists of schools are high reach, and it could be a bias based on a combination of having achieved high expected IB grades, being academically demanding, and indeed being around parents and relatives who attended academically demanding schools.
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I thought that OP had said that their D24 would be able to meet the team and swim with McGill at a practice, but not sure if that happened yet.
I Know for sure they mentioned training with the team at some point and since only the Canadian schools would allow this (d2 can as well but no d2 schools on the list) I either assumed it was McGill or it was explicitly stated it was McGill. I am curious if that has happened as well.
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Have you visited? While it seems like a great school on paper it is very different from all the other schools you have on your list, that is why people are questioning it. Usually by Summer before senior year, for athletes, the list has become more similar as the student determines their own personal preferences regarding size, location, campus feel, ect
Additionally, recruited athletes don’t have the luxury or experience of multiple acceptances in hand so tough decisions have to be made prior to committing and applying, unlike the typical senior applicant who has to make tough decisions after applying.
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I don’t think this is a fair statement.
1 - there have been endless posts suggesting OP should cast a wider net.
2 - OP is fully aware they may end up at their safety.
Kids choose school over sport ALL THE TIME. I only brought up the McGill situation because it does seem so different from the list. Personally, I’d swap one of the reach schools to an easier get that I really loved. However, as a foreigner myself, I understand that for OP McGill is the norm. It’s only in the US that college is a lifestyle, most other places it’s just business.
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I know absolutely nothing about athletic recruiting, but I do know a bit about McGill. We know more than several very happy graduates of McGill, and our son considered it for both undergrad and grad school (didn’t apply be the reasons were not ones in the articles above). It is a highly regarded university…and the location really sings to many students. The cost is favorable as well. We would have been happy to send either of our kids there.
Yes, it’s different, it seems, from other colleges on this OPs list. But many students have an outlier in terms of colleges for one reason or another. I don’t find that odd at all.
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Admission to McGill is nearly assured so there is one safety. There is a chance D may be on the swim team. Right now, this may be the most viable opportunity at hand to attend a school on either one of OP’s lists.
I would be interested to hear her thoughts about the school, Montreal, the coach/team if relevant. Or at least hear that she would be really excited to attend for particular reasons rather than it is just on a list of top global universities. How happy would she be there if she did not swim?
Hope you are willing to share a bit about this part of the journey. In the end this is a kid whom all of us just want to see land in a spot that fits her well.
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“McGill’s key benefit in D24’s case is to provide 99% guaranteed acceptance, 100% French fluency upon graduation, 30%+ cheaper tuition, potential for 35k scholarship from her current domicile through a scholarship awarded to attendees of global T100 universities (which would apply to many universities n her list), and potentially swim on their team, all in a city she really liked” was detailed in my recent post but failed to underline couple points:
** D24 spent a lot of time with the McGill head coach before and after team training, where she talked with several team members. He was very supportive, and explained the Canadian recruiting process in great detail, including the fact that the final list of recruits comes in January mainly because of their rolling admission system (January is already an acceleration, given that some students with lower grades only receive their admissions in June), as well as the fact she didn’t make their regional cut times, which is what historically guaranteed a team spot for the fastest portion of new recruits, but certainly not all. He told her times look good, and any improvement between now and January would be accounted for, for her as well as other admitted athletes who want to join the team. This part of the process is very different from the NCAA recruiting, as essentially recruits come from the best student pool, and faster swimmers with lower grades (ie past January admission) are essentially walk-ons if there is a spot
** D24 very much liked the vibe of the campus as well as the city, having grown up in a large city all her life. She’s a fluent French speaker, which makes a big difference in Montreal, despite the very different accent
** probably the most important point after having visited almost all the schools in her tour, is that it certainly didn’t rank last in terms of her preference. So all in all a great safety match with no REA/ED restrictions
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Sounds like she would be very happy there, that’s great.
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It’s not surprising to me that some kids, like OP’s, would feel a fit with both large urban universities and small rural LACs. There are pluses and minuses to both. Sure there are some kids who can only see themselves at a small intimate college environment while others want the big campus/sports scene or something in between. But I think the vast majority will adapt to whatever environment they are put in because ultimately whether they are in huge or small, their group of friends and others they interact with will be about the same number. Weather, urban/rural, distance from home are the things that are variable over which they have no control.
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