@Nivo since you’ve had some pre-read results, would you share what has been said about SAT scores and test optional? I think your D was in the high 1400s somewhere - what was advised? Did she take it again?
She provided all her data as asked, and there was no specific back and forth regarding how/why she passed the pre-read, besides a coach email. there was no notice sent directly from admission that she’d passed the pre-read.
in discussion with relevant AOs during college tours, it so happened that sometimes the AO was her pre-read reader, or an AO who was willing to give in-private indications of exactly what they were looking for in that price
I think it’s not uncommon for the coaches to pass on the results including directives on what to do regarding a test score, submit/TO/take again, etc. It/s been murky since the TO option so wondering what the threshold might be.
I don’t believe recruits usually get feedback directly from admissions. How did you connect with the AOs in charge of your pre-read? Honestly, we’ve never interacted with an AO on personal level during a school visit (when they visit our HS, yes!). Wondering if most people do this? (unrelated to recruiting - I am assuming this was just a prospective student visit)
I am assuming the “indications of what they are looking for” were in general (not specific to any one applicant)? Could you not share what was said?
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IME the coaches generally pass that info on only when they make a verbal offer. No reason to tell a kid who they aren’t giving an offer to if they were to apply TO or not had they received an offer. And the guidance could be different if the student is applying without the athletic slot.
I agree it’s rare for a potential recruit to have contact with admissions. Even after acceptance, say for example the student wants to change a second semester senior year class…that all goes thru the coach, then on to the AO for approval (or not).
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Development office connection?
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In our experience with high academic D3s, coaches usually want the scores sent directly to them and then they decide if they submit it as part of the pre-read. My understanding is that the AO gives them a minimum score so if it’s under, they won’t send it with pre-read docs. One school recently told us (zoom group call) that 80% of their swimmers get sent into pre-read TO because they are under that threshold but coach didn’t share what the threshold was (this may vary by school). In our case, DD’s scores always go in (1570, 800 math) and we got positive feedback on those but again, I don’t know what the minimum threshold is at specific schools because we just send them to coaches. In addition to test scores, transcript and HS profile, two schools have also asked for a resume so AOs are presumably looking at some of the non-sport related ECs as well (although this is not common and we haven’t received any specific feedback on those), one also asked for AP scores - no feedback from there yet as those just went in. All feedback so far has been relayed to us by the coach, never the AO.
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Yes. That is my understanding of it too. My kids are also strong testers so it’s a moot point on our end. I am curious though (from a general admissions standpoint) where they might say don’t submit. Mostly I think the schools are just using that opportunity (where they guide the athlete who is going to be accepted anyway) to artificially increase the average scores.
I can’t remember… do you have a swimmer or another sport?
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Stanford told a top soccer player he had to hit 1250, in pre-test optional days. The standards are nothing like scores in the 1500s at most schools.
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Our experience is very similar with test scores going to the coach first who provides feedback on submitting. We have been asked for a resume as well and two schools asked for writing samples.
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We’ve run into both writing samples and statements.
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Stanford said a 1200 SAT minimum was required this past year for a female soccer recruit. But a recruit with a 1320 SAT was asked to take the test again to increase their admissions chances.
Another data point: Vassar wanted at least a 1390 SAT to submit scores in the pre-read. Otherwise, the coach would leave the score out of the submission to admissions.
And another: Wellesley was planning on two rounds of pre-reads last year, one in July and another in mid-August if they didn’t get enough ED1 commits in the first round.
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D generally volunteered all information (Grades/SAT/Course load, school profile) and asked the coach whether she’d be selected for pre-read. responses varied from coach to coach:
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“passed” email without discussion of specifics
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“our timeline is…” email without specifics
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no response = you don’t qualify for pre-reads
This maybe why D24’s mistaken impression was that the pre-reads themselves are an assumed pass when the coach offers the pre-read
Contacts with AOs were informal after regular college admission presentation, where some AOs volunteered information either because they were in charge of Athletes/ Specific Sports / Specific Region. She never asked AO specific questions about pre-reads, only mentioned to them she was a swimmer
This thread is over 1400 posts and several times, many of the posters have clearly explained the preread process to you. We explained that without the coach support, the preread is basically meaningless, and there will be many more prereads done than slots given.
Also, just providing the information to a coach without an explicit invitation does not mean an automatic preread.
Asking an AO about this is not meaningful either, as the coach support is the key. I have never heard of discussing this with an AO, and I also wonder if that may be backfiring a bit.
Good luck to your daughter at her first US meet this weekend; I hope she just enjoys the experience and is not nervous because coaches want to see improvements in time. Fwiw, one or two meets are not going to move the needle of interest too much; so she should do her best, then focus on schools she she can see herself at and that have shown clear interest. “Love the school that loves you back”.
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if “one or two meets are not going to move the needle” (which she agrees since she didn’t rain much during her recent college tour!), then there is little she can do to “focus on schools she can see herself at” besides wait and hope for the elusiveñ coach support…
Waiting and hoping is not an effective strategy
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coach support depends on times / development potential / current coach recommendation / pre-read / D24 voiced interest / vibe / priority rank amongst swimmers on coach’s recruit list… all ears if there’s another magic sauce.
expanding her list is possibly a strategy for others, but D24 has pretty much circled the narrow list schools offering the academic challenge she’s seeking, and where are stand a chance to swim.
Good information. These test scores, including Wellesley doing another round of pre-reads all makes sense given the schools and their programs.
IMO, something to keep in mind in general for schools like a Stanford or HYP, the min. SAT scores that an athlete is given or we hear passed around as the low bar does not necessarily mean they will be on the final recruiting list and admitted if they have that score. They could still get bumped off the coaches board by someone that is a similar top athletic recruit and is also a much stronger student with the 1500 that you see required for other schools.
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This^^
Again, in my opinion you are making it more complicated with your list of other factors. All recruits have potential and express interest. I would say all I have met are excellent students and would fit the “vibe” as a student athlete.
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sounds like your kid is a smart one. and a dedicated swimmer. there are many other schools that will offer an “academic challenge”. Don’t turn your nose up at them because they don’t offer “prestige” if swimming is this important to her.
A recent quote about Fulbright scholars:
"Topping this year’s lists of Doctoral, Master’s, and Baccalaureate institutions with the most accepted Fulbright U.S. Students are Georgetown University (DC), Salisbury University (MD), and Bowdoin College (ME). The University of Arizona (AZ) and the Pennsylvania State University ¶, the University of Houston-Downtown (TX), Kenyon College (OH), and the University of California-San Francisco (CA) had the most applicants selected for the Fulbright U.S. Scholar Program in the Doctoral, Master’s, Baccalaureate, and Special-focus institutions degree categories, respectively. "
edited to add: this is if a Fulbright is important. Some view it as important. For my kids? nope. because their degrees are taking them other directions that a Fulbright isn’t in the cards.
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Agree! IMO, it really is not that complicated. There is uncertainty for many recruits as pieces fall into place but it is not that complicated.
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