OP said Chicago and JHU required times to be recruited are too fast.
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Here is how teams stack up.
ETA - the championship ranking is a little different but the general level doesn’t change.
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Also these teams are too fast for this swimmer.
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I don’t believe OP met required test score for JHU, so that was out of play regardless.
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D24’s swim list is very straightforward: strong academic schools, with a good fit after visits ranging from D3 #10 (reachy) to unranked (good chance). She believes her selection process has been methodical, and well considered. And she was lucky to have the freedom to choose without financial, ranking, or other considerations. As parents we subscribe to and support her choices. As it stands, her realistic chances come down to a few coaches.
However, if she’s not recruited, the list broadens, and it’s still very much subject to modifications.
At this juncture, her journey continues to progress from coach to coach, and she’ll hopefully reach the point of strong coach support at a school SHE likes
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If her only offer/coach support is from the “good chance” school above – do you expect she would commit? or would she still consider pursuing the non-swimming route?
parents advise and counsel, kids hopefully consider all the relevant facts and reach the right decision for THEM. she’ll cross that bridge if she’s lucky to get there
My kids wanted more from me. They wanted advice, they wanted my opinion - and they wanted my money. They were very young (16 and 17), they’d rarely spent $100 on something before, never mind $100k,
I did try to ‘leave it up to them’ at first, but then realized they needed a lot more help. It was an exciting time, but scary too. Sometimes the choices are black and white and they need a lot more direction, whether it is ‘That school is really remote’ or “I can see you enjoying the X at School B.” It may also be an opinion that only someone with experience can give, like “I don’t think that school is worth the money” or “I didn’t get the opinion that the placement office could help you find an internship” or “We don’t know anyone who lies withing 200 miles of that school.”
Don’t leave the decision entirely up to her. It’s a family decision.
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Agree with you that it’s a family journey.
Our main advice has been to gather as many facts and data as possible prior to making a final decision, so as to avoid regret as much as possible.
The second advice is more practical, encouraging them to consider at least a minor or double major in STEM simply because STEM majors typically have the option to secure much higher starting salaries if they want that later
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There can be some variations depending on what swimmers are graduating, what specific needs are, etc. but a look at relative times can provide quick, objective way to figure out how recruitable an athlete might be for a particular program.
For example, converting this athlete’s fastest listed times this year in the 100 free, 200 free, and 50 free to SCY using the SwimSwam Real-Time Converter, compared to the #10 ranked D3 program this season by SwimCloud, they would be ranked 11th, 15th, and 13th respectively in those events on the team for fastest listed times this season. I would call that more than “reachy”. And I wouldn’t think that even a walk-on spot would be possible.
Compared to the #49 SwimCloud ranked D3 program this season, they would be ranked 6th, 10th, and 7th on the team for fastest listed times this season. Using a broad rule of thumb that a recruit isn’t going to get much coach attention unless their times would place them in the top 2 to 3 of multiple events in the current team, I’d call that reachy for this team.
Comparing to a particular team outside of the top 50 D3 program rankings that has been mentioned on this thread as a possibility, the athlete would be ranked 3rd, 7th, and 6th on the team for fastest listed times this season. That’s at least getting in the range for one event and could generate interest (though relative weakness on other events could be an issue). This very well might be the team referred to as a “good chance.”
That’s from a quick lookup of times and 5 minutes of analysis. A more granular look at team makeup might provide a bit more insight, but roughly speaking, it looks like programs outside of top 50 D3 rankings are the only ones where recruiting interest would be likely.
(edited to add) I just realized that one can extract season-best times by conferences too. Looking at the NESCAC, the potential recruit’s best listed times this year in the three events described above compare to conference swimmers’ season bests as follows: 69th, 105th, and 77th. Since those are nowhere near top-18 in the conference for points scoring in the championship meet, the key would be finding a program that is relatively weak in those events and doesn’t have 2023 recruit/transfer commitments who fill the gaps.
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What would be some examples of selective schools where she could swim? I cannot remember if anyone has done some recon work looking for some good fits.
I had mentioned some places like Oberlin, Macalester, Bard, Skidmore, Whitman, Willamette, and Dickinson earlier. Could add Carelton, St. Olaf, Puget Sound, Union, and others. Strong environmental science programs at many/most, and the swim programs are much more in range.
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For those interested in environmental science programs at the above “selective schools”, one can look at
a) the number of full professors dedicated to leading that program at each of the schools
b) the 2023 admit rate at those schools
c) assess whether you would commit an ED application to a school from that list
I think it can be a mistake to focus too specifically on a given major. All my kids changed their intended major (in some cases dramatically) once they matriculated, which is possible if not likely for a 18 year old to consider. The focus on school fit might be more important.
Not being able to swim, then choosing a school for a major that may or may not be the one ultimately pursued are issues for parents to consider in guiding their children thru this process.
I fear the OP is putting too many constraints on his daughter’s universe given some of her limitations (swim times, international status, etc).
The potential for disappointment is high.
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The title for this thread refers explicitly to “highly selective schools”. Of course, it is a personal choice to attend these schools, others will prefer to choose schools purely on fit or for sports, all of which is acceptable. in common cc terminology “highly selective” would likely exclude schools with 20%+ admit rates and/or schools where the major of study doesn’t have a full tenured professor in charge of the department
If (a) is your only metric for assessing environmental science programs, you don’t really have a good decision-making process. The environmental science/studies programs at LACs are multidisciplinary and have very few professors connected primarily to the program. If you want a large faculty, choose a university. But then guess who gets the research positions and the attention of that professors? (hint: not generally the undergrads).
There seems to be an inordinate emphasis on the number derived from the number of acceptances divided by the number of applications as an proxy indicator of educational quality. Maybe if you just directly stated a maximum acceptable acceptance rate to you, someone could come up with suggestions. Carleton’s is now less than 17% though, so if you’re talking below that, you are also talking about a very small list of D3 schools whose swimming programs also appear to be too selective.
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The title for this thread also refers to swimming recruiting…
I think it is a personal choice to limit your daughter’s applications to these schools, however attending is really not really your choice at all. Your fate is in the hands of the coach, or in the worst case, the admissions office.
With the OP’s reported circumstances, I worry about the need for the under 20% admit rate. If a school offers varsity swimming, has a good department/tenured profs in what your kid thinks she wants to study, why add the under 20% cut off? Seems arbitrary, and in the OP’s case unnecessarily limiting.
Love the school that loves your kid.
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Blockquote
Focusing on admit rates to assess the quality of a school ( or at least US schools since McGill’s admit rate is +30%) is foolish. Do you realize that admit rates have significantly declined for many of these schools in just the past 3-5 years? Does this make a <20% school materially different now than how it was 5 years ago?
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All my doctor friends were so focused on getting into Med School, they deliberately chose colleges where they knew they would shine, some played varsity sports (a nice Med School hook), and where the experience and grading would enhance their Med School apps.
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