Swimming Recruiting for Int’l Jr. Targeting Highly Selective Colleges

Athletic Recruits
1649

We are a family with many McGill ties, so I am hardly disposed toward belittling it. I am also very aware of its Pros and Cons, and how it stacks up “selectivity-wise” with US colleges.

There are many different Environmental studies options, but the Faculty of Environmental Science is located at the remote McDonald campus. Even at the downtown campus, McGill’s “selectivity” would not crack the US Top 50, as I said before.

So let’s pivot from “highly-selective” as a main criteria, to student fit. If you think McGill is a great fit for your kid, then great. I highly suggest, however, you revisit in the Winter.

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1650

If D24 is absolutely OK going to McGill without swimming, I hope that she has thought hard about what that experience will be like. I am encouraged that McGill already passed the sniff test when she visited but it seems that the Canadian undergrad experience is very different from the residential based US college experience.

McGill without swimming may possibly be the only outcome available to D24 based upon the OPs previous iterations of the swim/non swim school list.

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1651

McGill actually comes into play only if she’s not recruited. If that’s the case, D24 will have pivoted to her second list of non-swim schools, and we concur with her that McGill is a great safety school both academically and because of fit.

The next couple weeks will clarify her journey and decide where she ED’s

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1652

Rather than looking at admissions selectivity percentages as a proxy for educational quality, I think it would be more instructive to look at other data, including the following “peer group” institutions as selected by institutions themselves.

https://www.chronicle.com/article/who-does-your-college-think-its-peers-are

“Custom peer groupings and institutional data are from the National Center for Education Statistics’ Integrated Postsecondary Education Data System for 2021-22. The peer groups are self-selected by the institution.”

Looking at three schools that have been discussed here and which all have sub-20% acceptance rates and top-25 US News rankings, there are a lot of peer institutions they selected that have higher acceptance rates than that arbitrary cutoff. If the schools themselves think that these “less-selective” places are peers, it might be worth re-examining the rigid list based on perceived prestige.

In addition to the standard Swarthmore, Williams, Amherst, and Pomona quad and other schools with very low acceptance rates, these other peer schools were chosen that have lower rankings/ higher acceptance rates:

Bates: Conn College, Dickinson, Franklin & Marshall, Kenyon, Macalester, Oberlin, Occidental, Richmond, Sewanee, Whitman

Carleton: Beloit, Bryn Mawr, Dickinson, Kenyon, Lake Forest, Macalester, Oberlin, St. Olaf, Wooster

Grinnell: Kenyon, Macalester, Oberlin, St. Olaf

As a bonus, most of these schools have swim programs that are less selective (except for Kenyon, Wooster and a few others).

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1653

she’s excluded out of recruiting at Williams, Swarthmore, Pomona, Bates… but not prepared to ED at the other schools on your list, which is the most rational approach for someone seeking an academically selective school. the regular application route still opens chances to 10+ schools

1654

I think the point YoLo is making is that several of the non-swim, highly ranked and low-admit rate schools consider their peers to be some easier admit (over 20% acceptance rates) and potential swim-possible schools, and your daughter might be able to swim at some of these higher admit rate/peer schools. It’s a shame to exclude them because their admit rates are above 20%. ETA I find the “peer institution” chart/graphic to be fascinating, and fun to play around with.

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1655

Right. Even if she would prefer to ED at say, Brown, and not swim, chances of getting in are not in her favor. She should consider a couple of easier admits where she might join the team with an RD acceptance, but that may require building a relationship now.

OP, are you absolutely certain that she’d rather attend McGill than swim at one of these easier admit (but great in her major) schools? If McGill is a safety, to me that means “willing to be stuck with it as a last resort” and there is some compromise being made. Maybe she’d prefer a “last resort” where she doesn’t have to compromise on the swimming also.

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1656

Certainly difficult to get a handle at times on the OP and daughters priorities, however if she likes McGill and it is a good fit (city school, decent size university, although cold winters Montreal is a nice city with a non-US, European type feel), I would not call it “stuck” if it is a fit. And if McGill is a fit, then I do not think a school like Grinnell or Connecticut College would be a fit.
I am the school should be a good fit first without the sports type of person, and for some, a larger university college life has a lot to offer and is a better fit.

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1657

By “stuck” I just mean “not what I have chosen but I can be happy here.”

1658

the enlightening part of visiting schools was that fit wasnt defined by a single common denominator. She loved the warm California weather and liked Stanford/Berkeley/UCLA/USC, but didn’t warm up to Pomona/Claremont. But that didn’t mean she didn’t like the small school feel at Bowdoin/Wesleyan/Brown/Grinnell, nor did it mean excluding the cold winter weather at McGill. Visits are a true discovery, for both kids and parents

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1659

Huh? Brown?

ETA - Never mind I misread the small school feedback.

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1660

Dickinson is truly an impressive, underrated hidden gem, and they have a really nice athletic facility. I also believe that swim team would be in reach.

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1661

Everyone I know loves it.

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1662

You visited Grinnell? And you visited McGill in the winter?

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1663

Understood.
My comment was based on it sounds like McGill is a school that they like and believe could be a good fit, and this type of school is very different than some of the small remote colleges that others think the OP/daughter should look at. All fine schools but one can really feel stuck if a small remote college is not a fit.

1664

Yup, as a Dickinson grad and former swimmer myself, this seems like an obvious winner to me. Fantastic environmental science opportunities and a great swim team.

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1665

I think it is understandable to have unexpected reactions to different campuses.

Despite others offering great alternatives, I don’t think it will move the needle on OP’s decision making. I mean, after 8 months and 1600+ posts, they added only a handful of other schools. And I think we all understand the reason why those schools were added.

I hope D24 gets an offer. If not, then I would be curious to see how the non swim list evolves. Right now, they are all reaches except for McGill and it is possible that D24 would get shut out of US schools

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1666

There is no doubt Dickinson is a great school, but applying ED to Dickinson doesn’t make sense in HER case, with or without swimming.

Also pretty much impossible to get shut out of the UC system despite JLDDCC’s opinion

2022 Freshman admit rates

Campus CA RESIDENT OUT OF STATE INTERNATIONAL
Berkeley 14.5% 8.6% 5.5%
Davis 32.3% 59.8% 43%
Irvine 18.2% 36.6% 21%
Los Angeles 9.2% 8.9% 5.8%
Merced 100% 78.6% 81.7%
Riverside 66% 88.1% 68.%
San Diego 23.8% 31.5% 15.5%
Santa Barbara 26.7% 28.8% 19.7%
Santa Cruz 43.2% 70.7% 55.4%

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1667

Actually, it’s not impossible at all, particularly if not applying to Merced

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1668

The UC system is in dire need of full pay students. A friend in need is a friend indeed