<p><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/22/opinion/22friedman.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/22/opinion/22friedman.html</a> </p>
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<p>“You find out who’s swimming naked when the tide goes out”.
(Warren Buffet)</p>
<p>What’s scary about the above is how much students are having to borrow. You can’t declare bankruptcy for student loans. Is that the next prime loan debacle? How does someone making twelve dollars and hour repay 80,000 in loans and buy a car much less a home. I heard on, “The Early Show” that there is a computer dating service just for people who are not indebted!</p>
<p>I don’t believe the downfall is primarily in our educational system, but in our societal culture. The side-effects of divorce, video games, unhealthy media, and lack of parental supervision have eroded our childrens behavioral foundation. Increasingly, instructional time is spent on classroom management (controlling bad behavior). </p>
<p>Additionally, motivated and capable students are waiting-up while a teacher strives to leave no child behind.</p>
<p>“No child left behind” = No child moves ahead</p>
<p>I find it interesting that American fourth-graders compare favorably with Singaporean fourth-graders - I always thought that Singaporean students were able to open such a big gap on American students by the end of high school because of a stronger primary education, which meant that students could go through secondary school at an accelerated rate. Evidently not (though I’d like to see those numbers he’s talking about).</p>
<p>This article is too vague to draw any conclusions.</p>
<p>Our economy is very different than that of Finland or Canada, and our population is much larger and more diverse. Comparing us to some of these societies is like comparing apples and oranges.</p>
<p>I suspect that our educational system has pockets of excellence as well as large urban school districts that are a mess. The problems of the poor school districts are very difficult to solve, as has been exhibited by the very mixed results of charter school efforts.</p>
<p>Agree with fendrock. I’d want to see more detailed information. Like what’s the real difference between being #1, #10, or #24. </p>
<p>Anyway, i know it’s more anecdotal, but it seems to me that kids are learning more than ever. My kids have learned way more than i did in high school. There are way more honors and AP opportunities. </p>
<p>And just look at these boards. Where there’s an overwhelming # of qualified kids trying to look for every little edge they can get to stand out in the college application process. </p>
<p>It easy these days to fall into a gloom/doom mindset. We’ve survived wars, depressions, bad presidents, etc. This too shall pass.</p>
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<p>I think that still is the reason. The foundation laid for several subjects in Singapore is much better than in the United States, so the United States students start hitting problems in middle school (which is also severely underchallenging in the United States, making the problem worse) and then by high school the students with better early preparation are far ahead. See </p>
<p>[Amazon.com:</a> Knowing and Teaching Elementary Mathematics: Teachers’ Understanding of Fundamental Mathematics in China and the United States (Studies in Mathematical Thinking and Learning.): Liping Ma: Books](<a href=“http://www.amazon.com/Knowing-Teaching-Elementary-Mathematics-Understanding/dp/0805829091/]Amazon.com:”>http://www.amazon.com/Knowing-Teaching-Elementary-Mathematics-Understanding/dp/0805829091/) </p>
<p>for more about this.</p>
<p>Sources for more details: </p>
<p>[TIMSS</a> 2007 International Mathematics and Science Reports](<a href=“http://timss.bc.edu/TIMSS2007/intl_reports.html]TIMSS”>TIMSS 2007 International Mathematics and Science Reports) </p>
<p>The charts comparing ranges of students who reached different levels in different countries are quite dismaying for the United States.</p>
<p>All I know is that I did a lot of ‘home schooling’ - reading substantial books with kid, taking kid to educational places, working on vocab, severely limiting TV, etc, - thinks a time strapped or uneducated parent simply could not do.</p>
<p>And I truly think this was necessary, as the elem. and middle school ed. was insufficient.</p>
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<p>Don’t think it; know it. I wish I could find the citation now, but the #1 marker for student success is parental educational level; #2 marker is parental involvement level. And, psst, Dads (probably not the ones reading CC 
): “involvement” does not mean patting your son on the head for a good grade. It means sitting with him, no matter how physically tired you are, to review his homework, guide him, instruct him on his errors, and above all show excitement yourself over education in general and over his education in particular. On a daily basis, Not when you feel like it. Not when Mom is sick or birthing a baby. Boys will turn off and underperform in an instant when they do not perceive that Dad gives a damn. And they need concrete evidence that Dad gives a damn. The same things that Moms do, you need to do if you want your son to succeed. Having him hear it (yet again) from females is not as persuasive, at least for most boys.</p>
<p>As an educator, I am so tired of seeing the gender gap in male and female school performance when it so clear that those boys have the same ability, and seeing in every case it being traced back to lukewarm commitment by those particular fathers, who do not understand how critical their educational role is and how much detail that role involves.</p>
<p>Kudos and gratitude from me to all the Dads here concretely involved in the education of sons (especially) and daughters. (Temporarily saving it for Dads, because in my part of the world it’s the Dads who need it more. Moms for the most part are already there.);)</p>
<p>The country NEEDS Walmart clerks, so why would one expect the schools to produce for other than what we need?</p>
<p>I had a hard time figuring out suburban high schools until I read the sociological study “Shopping Mall High School”. Getting a little old now, but available in your local library, likely, and still completely applicable.
Educational excellence is only one of many goals of high schools, and generally of interest to only a small number of participants- students, parents and staff. One argument the authors make is that each student is allowed to fall to the academic level where he or she will be “successful”.<br>
Education surveys of parents are pretty consistent. Two-thirds of parents say that American children aren’t getting a good education, and two out of three think THEIR kid is getting a good education.</p>
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<p>And the worst shall be first … at least in my public school system. And yes, I’ll haul out that old wheeze about my D (@private HS) scraping through AP Calc with a B+, while her cousin breezed through her “best in the area” public suburban HS with a solid A. AP test scores? D - 5. Cousin - 2. Cousin’s response “Gee, there were a lot of questions on that test I just didn’t understand.”</p>
<p>Thank you for starting this thread. It helps me justify sending in the deposit check for D’s 11th grade at boarding school.</p>