Switch highschools?

Parents Social Lounge
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<p>jessiehl makes an important point here. Graduates of very rigorous high school programs may have had less of a “life” in high school, but they are very well prepared for college, both in terms of being able to cope with the workload and understanding that they will not necessarily be superstars. My daughter, who attended a very rigorous high school, had exactly that experience. Some of her college classmates who were standouts at less rigorous high schools are struggling academically (and probably psychologically as well).</p>

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<p>We live in one of the most competitive societies on earth and the earlier children learn that it is a tough world and that you’d better be prepared to deal with it, the better off they’ll be. It’s better for them to struggle when they are under your control and supervision than to crash later on their own.</p>

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<p>Re #21, but then my kid, who did *not *go to the most rigorous high school in the world, and rarely did more than three hours of homework, finds that he’s a lot willing to work hard than some of his fellow students some of whom are theoretically better prepared. Perhaps it’s because for the first time 80% of his coursework is stuff that interests him. I’m always a little wary of the argument that kids need to learn to be competitive sooner. That tends to lead to the argument that kindergartners need homework.</p>

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<p>Homework is (just as rigor is) in the eye of the beholder. (But I see your point mathmom)</p>

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<p>I know this topic is well worn, but does anyone think the competition to get into top colleges has reached insane proportions? The excessive homework is directly related to honors/AP courses. At my son’s school, no matter how many AP courses you take, there are 20 other kids who will take more. Why take 7 or 8 AP courses? I can see taking four AP classes total because you are interested in the subjects and may continue on in those subjects in college so the possible college credit will be helpful. The last 3 AP courses are usually taken purely for GPA/college admissions reasons. Colleges can reduce the pressure on kids by stating a student may choose up to four AP courses that will be considered by the admissions committee. Any AP courses taken past those four will not increase chances for admission. This would also level the playing field for schools that can’t afford to offer many AP classes.</p>

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<p>It is a balancing act when you are looking at those types of choices. A student who is top drawer at a school recognized for its academic excellence has a leg up on a like student at mediocre school, all other things equal. The questions arise when you have a student who may not be tops at the excellent school, but has a shot of being so at a mediocre school. It really depends on many factors, most of them by chance, so it isn’t something one can predict. You don’t know for sure if your student would be val or sal at the less rigorous school which is what he would need to be for consideration at top colleges, particularly if the high school is not on the radar screen of those colleges. On the other hand, if your student is within the group of kids who tend to get into top colleges from a “feeder type” high school, his chances are higher.</p>

<p>I say this as a mom who had two kids in a school where the top quintile of kids just about always gets into the most selective colleges. The cum laude kids who are the upper 10%, are HPY kids. My sons were in the middle of the pack at that school. They still got into very selective schools with pretty much a 3.0 non weighted average and high SAT scores. They did better, I think than their peers who got better grades, say up to a 3.5 gpa and similar test scores but at less rigorous schools. They did not do as well as those kids who got top grades and higher test scores in any type of schools. </p>

<p>When you throw in the athletic card, that can change things. First of all, however, realize that unless a school gets athletic admits to just about their entire varsity team in a sport, unless your kid is of the calibre of those kids who are athletic recruits, they are not going play on a college NCAA team. The standard is high for college recruiting. So many parents I know are so sure their kid will be playing the sport in college, and those kids sometimes don’t even make the freshman team in high school! Talk about dreams dashed that fast! I was just talking to a parent whose son goes to my sophmore’s high school and the young man was cut from the freshman football team to his absolute dismay. Another young man who was the star of the middle school baseball and basketball teams did not make the freshman teams for those sports at his high school. Happens all of the time. I had heard that only 1% of those kids who play in highschool continue to do so in college. In my experience that is a bit low, but 10% would be high, at the NCAA level. So unless a high school is such a power house in a sport that they feed kids into college play, it is not going to be that big of an issue for college sports. Your kid is unlikely to get on to a college team if he cannot get on to a high school, most of the time. It is a rare high school that sends many athletes onto to college sports.</p>

<p>As Atomom says, there are benefits of a smaller, less competitive school. Kids have more opportunities,not just in sports, but in student council, school plays, choir, all sorts of ECs, if the school offers them. Some of the top schools that offer such ECs shut out most kids who want to participate. One of the things I loved about the private school that my two boys attended was that they were able to join any sport, club, ensemble they wanted to try. THis would not have been the case at our very competitive public high school where, you could really do only one activity a term since they met at the same times, and there was stringent gatekeeping. THe same went for AP courses and other popular things. ANYONE who wanted AP or advanced courses or a language or class offered had like a 99% chance of getting it at the private school. It allowed my boys to get the top level of instruction and to try any EC, sport, music they wanted. However, the standard for excellence at that private school was far higher since the kids were preselected as good students with high test scores.</p>

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<p>High School Baseball Web - a great website for those of you with baseball players - has a nice chart of the probability of making it to various levels in baseball, basketball, football, soccer, and ice hockey:</p>

<p>[url=<a href=“http://www.hsbaseballweb.com/probability.htm]Probability[/url”>Probability]Probability[/url</a>]</p>

<p>For baseball, a senior - meaning they have already fought their way through the attrition at the high school level - has a 5.6% chance of playing at an NCAA institution. Note that this is any institution so D1, D2, D3 are all included. </p>

<p>From what I have seen, for the 60+ kids out for the freshman team at my son’s smaller high school (700 kids) - 8 played as seniors. The odds are VERY long for any eighth grader.</p>

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<p>You are so right Scualum. The young man who did not make his freshman basketball team in high school was a top 8th grade b-ball player in middle school, winning all kinds of awards. He played in several rec leagues, high level traveling teams, etc, etc. Didn’t matter. Was cut from the high school team.</p>

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<p>momof95–There is another thread in this forum about the problem you discuss with regards to APs. The OP of that thread discusses how difficult it has been for her son to manage 5 AP classes. I think the title of that thread is ‘S1 thinks college is useless’. It does seem to be an academic arms race. </p>

<p>With regards to the statistics about playing in college–I think you need to be careful here. </p>

<p>On my son’s high school soccer team, there are many more kids that play on that team than want to go on to college soccer or have the ability to go on. I doubt any of the seniors on that team will go on.</p>

<p>However, for the 20 seniors who play on the elite club travel team in the age group above him, I know of 5 (and there are possibly more) who have college commitments. So at least 25% of that group will go on. </p>

<p>It’s probably similar to the situation with admittance rates to top elite schools. Perhaps overall there are only 10% of kids getting in, but I bet of those who have 2300+ SAT scores and high GPAs, there is higher percentage of those students getting in.</p>

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<p>I agree that elite teams are a different grouping than high school teams - my son’s elite baseball program sent 15 out of 20 to D1 colleges, the other 5 to junior colleges. All will be playing college ball. (And one that was on the roster but never played due to other commitments won’t be playing college ball - he spent last summer in the pros after being drafted from HS.)</p>

<p>The point is - 8th grade is way too early to be projecting if a athlete will be good enough to play D1 (which the Ivies are) college sports. And decisions as to what school to attend should not be based upon that slim possibility.</p>

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<p>I agree with you there, scualum, though I think I have been around too many naysayers about college sports. </p>

<p>But I think you get inklings of what they can do in 8th grade, especially with regards to size and strength and more importantly, passion. Those kids who were great stars at 11 but who will be on the small size start to have a bit of trouble around this time. And as commitment to the elite team increases, you will see some very good kids who don’t want to put in the time drop off. </p>

<p>No guarantees, of course, that any of it will pan out. You do have to be realistic. </p>

<p>Agreed, also, about chosing high school based on athletics. My son chose not to go to the local powerhouse high school in his sport for academic reasons.</p>

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<p>I remember watching a footrace at our elementary school - there was a 2nd grader who you just knew would be a runner - she was miles ahead of everyone else and made running look easy not hard. Sure enough - she was tops in the state a couple of years ago and got a gold at the Pan Am games recently. Sometimes you* can* tell. :)</p>

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<p>Sometimes, you have a good shot at being able to predict how good someone will be. There are some 8th graders that the NBA is eyeing. They are already excellent athletes and have the promise of extraordinary size. But speaking as a mom who had a truly gifted middleschool, highschool athlete who lost interest in competing once in college, even if the ability is there, you really can’t predict the mindset.</p>

<p>Also, a good friend of mine has a son who is nearly 7’ tall and a good basketball player. He was an excellent player in highschool but never made that final push to be good enough to continue on a D-1 college team. He is a sophomore in college now and no longer playing. Everyone predicted this kid would be the next Larry Bird. Nope. For every one that does make it to the top of sports, there are hundreds if not thousands who drop out, often for other interests. There are also those who rev up and meet their potential later in life.</p>

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<p>A person’s temperament and ability don’t necessarily go hand in hand.</p>

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<p>Um, because you are interested in the subjects and want to take the most interesting and challenging versions available to you? That’s what I did (there were a couple of cases where I <em>didn’t</em> take the AP version of a class because I didn’t like how it was done, but by and large, they were the superior classes).</p>

<p>I really hate the common mindset here that kids who take more than X APs in a year are clearly only doing it because they’ve been brainwashed by the college admissions arms race. I took 14 APs total, including 8 in one year, plus a dual-credit class and a graduate-level university class. It was far more than other people I knew were taking (the AP culture is not entrenched in Kentucky the way it is some other places). It was the right choice for me. I don’t regret it. I enjoyed those classes, and I had time for a life on top of them.</p>

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<p>Jessiehl - I apologize for lumping all those who take many AP classes together. Clearly there are many students who have a love of learning and they should be allowed to take as many AP classes as are available. I also agree that AP classes are usually better and get the best teachers. I wasn’t advocating that the number should be limited or that universities shouldn’t let students place out of as many classes as they can. I was advocating that colleges remove the motive of taking many AP classes just to get into a more selective school. I have no idea how much colleges differentiate between kids who take 5 AP classes versus 10 but many students believe it will give then an edge. Being in an area where the AP culture is entrenched, I know many kids, my son included, who will take say 4 AP classes because they want to for their intrinsic benefits and the others are taken with a careful eye on their GPA. Finally, I’m glad you had such an outstanding high school academic experience, I just hope my son has as good an experience.</p>

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<p>Another thing to remember about sports is that sometimes kids get injured. Even a relatively minor injury can cost a kid a whole season. A more serious injury can mean giving up the sport permanently or never again being able to play at a truly competitive level.</p>

<p>All it takes is one bad day in which a kid does something irreversible to his knee.</p>