Switching from Violin to Viola

College Majors Music Major
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<p>Update (and thanks to everyone for your input - believe me, it’s been read multiple times!) - the final decision is…</p>

<p>Viola</p>

<p>But still playing violin somehow.</p>

<p>She had a terrific experience at the North American Viola Institute at Orford this summer, and surprised herself by winning a local concerto competition on viola. We purchased a viola, which coincidentally turned out to be a “cousin” of her violin, by the same maker family during the same time period. Her violin teacher has, after some initial resistance, turned out to be very supportive and has even suggested that she bring her viola to her next violin lesson.</p>

<p>Now all she has to do is get into college.</p>

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<p>Not involved much with string instruments but I must admit I too have on more than one occasion heard words to the effect that if you can not handle the competition at violin move to viola be a star.</p>

<p>Also heard the same about flute and moving to oboe. I do know many band/orchestra teachers that can not find double reed players.</p>

<p>I was never sure if that was just players wanting to show pride in their instrument or there was truth in it. But it seems like there is at least some. There certainly is a great deal more competition at some instruments than others.</p>

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<p>Trumpet-</p>

<p>That is pretty much it, though the idea of switching from violin to viola to ‘become a star’ is kind of an exaggeration. The issue is really about how many people want to go into an instrument and also what level of playing we are talking about. For example, there are always a lot of kids going into the violin (like the piano and cello, my basis of understanding is because they are major solo instruments), so the competition is fierce at a level I never realized, whereas there aren’t as many kids interested generally in doing viola or the bassoon or the oboe or the french horn, etc. With less competition and need to fill the instruments, it can be relatively (and I mean relatively) easier to get into program A on the viola then violin, oboe then flute, etc. On something like the violin, you can have 140 kids auditioning for 10 spots in a music program on piano and violin, whereas the same group might have 9 viola spots open, and only attract 20 auditioning. Obviously, they aren’t going to take just anyone so that doesn’t mean they will take the best 9, if only 5 meet their basic cutoff, that is who will get in. Likewise,on ‘less popular’ instruments, it might be easier to get a scholarship on the bassoon then a violin, because the program has a need for bassoonists and is loaded with violin talent…</p>

<p>Obviously, once out in the real world, the tables even out. An orchestra might have 35 violins, but only 2 bassoons, oboes, etc, and given that orchestra jobs don’t open up much, everyone struggles to find a good job, and face a 100 people auditioning for that slot. In some ways, the violin might become easier statistically, if only because with 35 members,it is a lot more likely one of them at any given time might be leaving, while you have 1 clarinettist who hangs out for 60 years <em>smile</em>. </p>

<p>The key is relative ease, but the advantages sort of even out over time. Given that music auditions, entry to programs and such is not scientific, as one parent put it is a crapshoot or a confluence of vapors combined with having a good luck blackcat as I think, so it isn’t worth even trying to play the odds, but play what you like to play. Someone mediocre as a musician on the violin who switches to viola isn’t likely to be any less mediocre, unless the viola resonates with them and whatever made them mediocre on the violin is ameliorated; they might get a short term gain, but in the end a mediocre musician on any instrument is that…</p>

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<p>Again, the only advice I will venture is to engage the best viola instructor possible, one versed with the rep, technique, and instrument appropriate methods.</p>

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<p>Thanks violadad - the more I learn about viola, the more I see the subtle differences from violin, so your advice is much appreciated!</p>

<p>I’m trying really hard not to take comments about “mediocre players” and “easier to get into programs” personally. I guess it’s one thing to appreciate viola jokes in the abstract and another thing when they seem to be aimed at your kid…</p>

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<p>On the topic of viola, the jokes would indicate that if you do play, various things WILL be aimed at you. If it doesn’t work out, she can always leave it in an unlocked car with a “free” sign on it. :D</p>

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<p>stradmom- try not to take it to heart. Often, it is a case of “open mouth, insert other foot”!(voice majors of different types get the not-so-subtle digs too). YOUR D is what matters to you and I wish her the very best of luck!</p>

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<p>Thanks Mezzo’sMama - In my saner moments I do realize that I probably over-reacted. And hey - the kid is a blonde and a violist … somebody pass the Giant Target Stencil, will ya? ;-)</p>

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<p>Sending you the red spray paint in real time, strad! Given those stats, you’d better save the target and go easy on the paint!
Things were a lot funnier here last March -they must have been looking forward to spring and summer…</p>

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<p>Stradmom-
I understand completely, which is why I wrote what I did, that the jokes about the viola are based to a certain extent on among other things jealousy, that because relatively few students play it, it seems like they have an ‘unfair advantage’ (key word, seems), that someone ‘less qualified’ can get into a program, etc…which as I pointed out in an earlier post, has some grains of truth to it, but also misses the point that in a program a viola player is going to have to hold their own weight and then some, and then as they ‘go up’ it gets harder and harder, as it does for all instruments. </p>

<p>I kind of think part of the problem is that people expect that the process of auditioning, getting into programs and so forth is somehow ‘scientific’ and ‘fair’, and when they see anything that looks like it doesn’t work like that, they get their nose out of joint.One thing I am learning, it isn’t, that someone who seems to be really great, gets into various programs, doesn’t get into a certain program that is equally high level, because there is another candidate who has a connection to one or more of the teachers in the program (probably being taught by an ex student of theirs)…I am pretty certain that especially in programs where all the teachers in a program make the decision about admittance (rather then let’s say the office), there are times when the teachers are not unanimous in wanting a candidate admitted, but becaue they don’t want to **** off the colleage who really wants to teach the candidate, they go along (and with a sort of quid pro quo if they later have someone they like)…:).</p>

<p>An acquaintance of mine is a well known violist here in the NYC area, he is constantly working, in the pits of Broadway shows, orchestra work, chamber, recording, you name it, he has done really well. I spoke to him a long time ago about it, about the idea that viola is somehow easier, and he said pretty much what I did, that in the earlier stages it might be relatively easier then the violin, for example, simply because of the ridiculous competition on the violin at those levels, and few kids wanting to do it; but what he also said was that at the top level, whether it is music schools like Juilliard or NEC, or out in the real world, forget it, he said it wasn’t any easier, and in the ‘real world’ he said it was easier in his opinion to get work as a violinst, that after all the hotshots who dreamed of becoming the next Perlman dropped out in disgust and became CPA’s and such, that working violinists would find more opportunities relatively then would a violist, simply based on supply and demand (lot less violists, but then again, even less jobs demanding one). </p>

<p>And you are correct, you would be wise to get someone who is a high level viola teacher (going to do a heresy hear, but find someone who specializes in the viola, rather then is primarily violin but teaches viola). Believe me, it makes a difference, a high level, tough teacher makes all the difference in the world IMO, put a great student with a mediocre teacher and they will be…mediocre, put a great student with a tough teacher, you get high level playing:)</p>

<p>And if you want a viola joke that doesn’t trash the instrument, how about this one: “What is the difference between a viola and a violin?” “The viola burns longer”.Peter Schickele did this during his version of the Narration for Britten’s “a young person’s guide to the orchestra”…</p>

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<p>Teachers are, indeed, very, very important for any musician. A good viola teacher is worth their weight in beer, which is no doubt the origin of the other answer to your question…the viola holds more beer. (Also may be why violists are generally easier to get along with than violinists?)</p>

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<p>I like to think that viola players are kind of like Avis, they go out of there way to work hard and be better people, and are proud to do so. Many violinists grow up with this idea that they are the greatest thing since sliced bread (rye bread if you happen to be Jewish or love pastrami) and it takes a long time to find out that that and 2.25 can get you mugged on the subway…(and folks, this is obviously all tongue and cheek, considering my S is a violinist…)</p>

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<p>In all seriousness, there really do seem to be (for lack of a better word) personality differences between violists and violinists. I’ve been wondering if some of it has to do with the necessity for violists, playing those inner voice parts, to be more aware of the subtleties of what’s going on in the entire group and how they contribute to that, while violinists, while certainly cognizant of everyone else, have those soaring solos that everyone else simply has to follow.</p>

<p>Or maybe it’s the truly evolved ones who switch to viola. ;-)</p>

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<p>stradmom, you’ll get no argument from me regarding your observations. My son was the type who had to have the full score, be it quartet, ensemble or full orchestra work. He studied the work completely before playing, and he knew the other parts as intimately as his own.</p>

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<p>musicprnt: rye bread = WIN. </p>

<p>I often wonder about this idea as well, as a chicken-egg question. Most would agree that stereotypes about instrumentalists and singers do have some degree of truth to them–in general, oboe players having a certain temperament distinguishing them from tuba players, violinists vs. violists, etc. (Sopranos and Tenors, oh my!)</p>

<p>So…is it the personality that’s drawn to a particular instrument, or do the countless hours spent mastering that particular instrument, and the unique utilization of said instrument in the repertory (top line vs. middle voice vs. endless “tacet” markings) shape the personality? Nature vs. nurture? </p>

<p>I have no instrument-playing children myself, so I wonder what impressions parents of musicians have.</p>

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<p>N8Ma - I have my own theory - that people chose instruments based upon their natural voice. I made this observation after working with the middle school band program and noticing that the kdis with the squeakiest voices always chose oboe! :wink: [And for every rule, there will be countless exceptions. Yes, I know. I’m saying this “tongue in cheek”, but it does fit this way for my own kids. My soprano D on violin, my baritone S on horn, and my tenor S with the more gravelly “country” voice on guitar.]</p>

<p>However, directly addressing your comment - I think that younger children are naturally drawn to solo instruments because that is what they know. Many kids can identify a violin. Most kids - and a good many adults - cannot identify a viola. The few kids who start viola - or even cello - as a child are often kids who had a higher level of exposure to the instrument, or classical music in general. (In middle school band, kids come in wanting to play “drums”, trumpet, clarinet, or flute. Same reason - the solo instruments are more familiar to people.)</p>

<p>And a secondary reason - so many kiddos start violin - then they grow up and teach violin. It was hard finding a violin teacher around here when my kids were young, but it was impossible to find a cello or viola teacher!</p>

<p>So, you have a cute little 8 year old who has been playing violin for 5 years already, and pulling out some pretty cool sounds, and everyone gushes. The violinist gets used to the attention and the accolades. I think most violists start when they are a little older, and aren’t the cute little amazing kinder. By that time they are competing with amazing half-grown violionists - and the adoring public doesn’t understand why the violist can’t play as well.</p>

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<p>My daughter played violin for four years before switching to bass. I have not noticed any major changes in her personality over all that time. In her case, I believe that she found an instrument that fit her personality rather than allowing the instrument to change her approach to life in general. I very much doubt she would have become a music major had she not switched, so the instrument has undoubtedly had a big impact on her life in other ways.</p>

<p>My son, the guitar-playing singer/songwriter, seemed to know what his instrument would be from a very early age. We have home videos of him singing gibberish while “strumming” several objects (a toilet plunger, a feather duster, various non-musical toys…) before he could walk or say recognizable words.</p>

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<p>I think there is truth to the personality drawing the person to the instrument.For example, I have known about a half dozen tuba players, and their personalities all tended to be very individualistic people, proud of their own uniqueness, and for the ones serious about the instrument, proud that it was so ‘different’. Oboe players I have known tended to be detail oriented people, fussing over the small details, which given the nature of the oboe (or bassoon), well, kind of makes sense:). With the major concert solo instruments (orchestral I am talking here), the violin, piano and cello, there are generally two types (I am leaving out those forced to play the instrument, I swear Piano and Violin have the highest rate of kids being forced in the universe…). There are those who see these instruments as ‘prestige’ instruments, the big name solo instruments, and so forth, and they take up the violin with a gusto at a very early age (added to that parental pressure as well), and go after learning them with the intent of becoming the big name soloist,the star, and the instrument seems to be the vessel towards that. With that comes the personality that fellow students are not colleagues, but rivals or in extreme cases enemies, orchestra and chamber music are ‘for losers’, basically your corporate raider type on an instrument:). The other group are the ones who love the instrument for its voice, for its repertoire and for the way it expresses the music, they tend to know the lore of the instrument, the nuances, know the great ones, etc (and often are very interested beyond the music they play, into music/music theory as well:). Violists, the ones who go into the instrument seriously, tend to be the more thoughtful kids I have found, and also generally don’t have the ago their cousins the violinists can have…and I think that goes with the instrument, violas are generally the ‘inner voices’ that support others, are the soul of a chamber music piece rather then being the flash, and so forth…</p>

<p>Then again, the instrument, or least its environment, does shape the person, too. Good oboists are a rare species, so they acquire all these ‘surviving’ skills, including telling jokes about other instruments that no one besides another oboist can understand, Viola players form their own civil rights organization to defray all the sluts, and violinists early learn gang warfare and martial arts skills to survive the rough and tumble world of violin players …<em>lol</em></p>

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<p>Looks like Viola players and their parents have a good sense of humor about the kidding.</p>

<p>I remember Jethro Tull saying when asked why he played the rock flute. </p>

<p>He was a guitar player in a rock band until he saw Eric Clapton and realized he would never play like that. He went to a music store to find another instrument and his eye caught a shiney instrument on the wall, a flute. </p>

<p>I would guess often chance plays a huge role in what instrument a child begins playing. The school may have string instruments or just a band. Teacher might need someone on a certain instrument. I think natural wiring is probably not as big a factor as we might think. </p>

<p>Often it just is the shiney instrument or the one that is small enough to carry easily or the one the older sister played or the one she didn’t play or the one that the weird uncle bought as a present. Maybe a smile from someone performing on that instrument.</p>

<p>Most players could have reached the same level at any of a number of other instruments had the outside factors influenced them in a different way.</p>

<p>I would guess more players are attracted to instruments that have the solos and play the lead like the violin, flute and trumpet over the viola, bassoon and tuba.</p>

<p>Someone has to have done a study on this for music school at some point.</p>

<p>I know high schools are overrun with girls playing clarinet and flute because the cases are small. Most schools have bands and , many do not have any string ensembles.</p>

<p>I keep hearing from kids all double reed players are “weird” or some more modern word to describe the same thing. Little do they know what a great advantage it is to play a double reed or other instrument where the competition is tiny in comparison.</p>

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<p>BassDad, you were lucky. She switched before any long lasting ill effects became manifest. :D</p>

<p>I dunno. All tongue in cheek aside, these are all valid observations. I knew a lot of my son’s early peers from the get-go musically. A good number ended up in undergrad music disciplines, across a range of instruments albeit largely strings. A few fit the “molds”, a few don’t. I’ve asked him periodically, he said the sound draws him the most. If he had to do anything else by choice, he would do cello.</p>

<p>He has said he has the most fun with brass players. I haven’t dug for details. There are things you don’t wanna know, or at least reveal in a public forum. Personally, I’ve always been drawn to the harp. I find it mesmerizing. Or maybe it’s just the harpists themselves that enthrall me.</p>

<p>Same thing with sports. Some kids are born with the goalie or catcher mentality. D was born with it. “You ain’t getting by me. Not in this life.” Some people are born a bit “twisted”, but then the apple don’t fall far from the tree either. ;)</p>

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