Yes I even asked on a virtual Villanova webinar and they would not give more specifics on their ED1 vs ED2 numbers. You make good points about the “sure thing” students who are in that pool
Strong arming because and I don’t know about Nova - they continue to flash ED, even after you apply.
W&M is easy - you won’t get merit unless you win their grand prize.
Wake is brutally hard - less than 3% get per their website.
Richmond - not sure - but imagine not many.
In these schools, I like would assume none - but if you got any, it’d be bonus - I suppose most likely at Richmond.
So now we are saying that allowing applicants to amend (once submitted) their choice of application option is predatory. It would seem less applicant “friendly” to not allow changes.
Yes, schools prefer ED (and it works for some applicants) but offering it or even encouraging it is hardly coercive in nature. If you don’t like the game don’t play but mixing metaphors don’t expect (or demand) a free lunch.
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It is hard enough for someone to make that decision - for schools than flashing the “better chance” card - yes, they’re taking psychological advantage. I get it. I’m not saying it’s illegal, etc.
I’m simply saying they’re taking advantage of the family psyche, in essence offering at times that it’s the difference between acceptance and perhaps not - and sometimes this is true.
If someone has already submitted, sure - allow them to amend - but why continue to market to them?
Back to OP - in the end, you have to decide if it’s worth the risk to hold out to compare offers (not sure there will be money with these three) - but also is going ED an in vs. a rejection at EA.
Truth is, no one knows.
Good luck to OP.
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You mentioned your experience with Wash U and Emory and while I don’t know those outcomes I am curious if it informs your characterizations as strong arming?
Certainly EA or RD rejections can be disappointing having perceived ones kid to have been encouraged to apply ED but it doesn’t necessarily mean an ED application would have resulted in acceptance.
Both my kids were WL - both RD.
Now, schools WL a lot more applicants than they accept - so would RD have gotten them in - I have no idea. I have my suspicions - but they don’t matter.
Some schools - like CWRU and Miami - WL an insane amount of students.
In the end, these schools (businesses) are marketing.
I get it.
Trying to focus on OP - to me, merit isn’t happening at the other three - or at least two of the three - unsure on Richmond. Would applying RD bring a merit at Nova that ED wouldn’t? Again, an unknown - but one person a few messages ago said Nova isn’t big with aid.
In that sense, it sounds like ED is worth it assuming OP has no need - and is ok paying full.
Good luck to OP.
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Yes, OP can afford it, so it sounds like the safest thing to do is switch before we find out about EA to mitigate an EA wait list or rejection (a deferral would allow us to switch in time). The last decision my DD needs to make then is that she has been dancing her whole life and wants to try out for the college dance team, and going ED would mean she can only try out for the Nova team in the spring (which only takes 4 - 8 girls a year). So it will be a sit-down discussion of what is more important, the ability to try out for more dance teams and factor that in, or Nova no matter what!
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There’s just so many flags…you’d like to see merit. She hopefully can make a team.
I keep thinking ED isn’t right here and you’ll end up int he right place!!!
Good luck tho…for sure. It’s never easy…but your gut will steer you properly.
If post dance team discussion (now that comparative finances seem to be of less importance) Nova is top choice your above statement is spot on. ED is your best shot at acceptance while remaining EA can lead to “what if’s” and sour grapes about the process.
Good news is the decision is yours and Villanova is fairly direct in the cost/benefit analysis.
Simple question: If you could press a button and be accepted and attend Nova with little to no merit would you press the button and be satisfied? If yes ED makes perfect sense full stop.
Once again good luck!
Yes thanks so much, ultimately we just want our kids to be happy. Ideally she makes the dance team at Nova and everything works, if not as a parent I just have to hope and pray she gets over the disappointment, makes friends, and finds other activities. She will get a great education no matter which school she picks. I really appreciate the sounding board - it helps!
Curious did your kids that were waitlisted utlimately get into those schools?
Thank you, if I could press a button and get her into Nova and on the dance team I would in a heartbeat. But I can’t so like you say, post dance discussion if she agrees and understands that she is putting all of her dance eggs in Nova too, than ED we go… but she has to share in the decision and understand the risks and reward tradeoffs
Thank you for your support.
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At WUSTL, no. My son was a 4.7 or so, 34 ACT, 10 APs for Mechanical Engineering.
It’s good we didn’t ED - as it turns out he didn’t want to go - but when he first went - well it’s really nice.
My daughter at Emory (stayed on the list) no response and W&M - she didn’t stay on the W&M list. Her stats were close - a little bit less rigor - like 9 APs and less science. And a 32 ACT.
For example, WUSTL admitted (last year) a tad less than 4500 and yet had a WL of 2700 - so it’s sort of misleading to families who think they have a chance - granted they let in 915 off the WL (no idea how many went). At the time, they tracked interest - so who knows.
Emory offered 4300 admissions - and then put 6500 on the WL - so there you go, you know there it’s a crock. Didn’t know at the time - but learned after. That’s 6500 of 33000 applicants.
Case Western - more than 11K on the WL of 33K apps - so - it’s sort of disingenuous to the kids. Did people get off - a year ago? Yes 364 - but are your odds good…no
I’ve come to figure in my cynical way that a WL is a rejection but a hedge for the school’s benefit.
That said, I’m glad my kids were turned down - my daughter at 4 (UNC Rice too) and son just at WUSTL…it tells me they stretched. That both go to the ultimate safeties on their list - those are just those they preferred.
Nova admitted 6100 plus and yet supplemented that with 4337 WL offers - so - yes 56 got off and i’m sure that varies depending on yield but - I think at a lot of these schools - yes, it’s a bit deceptive - kids really think they have a good chance.
I guess I’m opposite the other poster for two reasons - in that I wouldn’t ED.
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You do want to compare offers - but in this case, since you’re looking at lesser merit assumed schools, you might gamble here. If you said you were looking at Hofstra or Denver or Miami, etc - schools that are known to give merit, I’d say there is likelihood of getting money and you should wait.
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More importantly - if I understood your note - your daughter really wants to dance but if she goes to Nova and doesn’t make the team - that’s it.
But if you go RD, then she can try out for each school team.
While Nova may be her top choice, if she doesn’t make the team but Richmond wants her on it, that might change her decision - hence a reason not to commit.
Of course, I don’t believe we know her profile. Maybe she’s a slam dunk for these three or a long shot - and that might change things too 
It’s never easy and some of us over analyze.
My true believe is - my daughter loves her school. But I’m sure she could have loved other schools too - and I’m sure your daughter can as well.
Let us know what you decide.
Very few kids get off wait lists at selective schools.
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For the most part, that’s true.
That’s my point - schools and rightfully so, are looking out for themselves.
Waitlist is for all intents and purposes a rejection but schools use as a hedge for themselves. But they have the kids bend over backward - letters, the kids will write on here each day will i get in.
Meanwhile, at many, they are offering a WL spot to more than they even admitted - c’mon.
It’s ruthless - and most these kids things - well I have a shot…
Colleges whipsaw people - that was my earlier point.
But again - back to OP - If her daughter 100% wants to dance, then I’m not sure how you risk ED if there’s not assuredness of dancing. No school is 100% the right school- regardless of what any student thinks. And missing a big part of one self’s identity is very unfortunate.
Wow, how do you get those wait list statistics? That truly is a croc, and so misleading to the poor kids! It sounds like your kids ended up exactly where they would want to go. I have not even mentioned our safety which is Butler, here brother goes there, she loves it and has a decent chance of making the dance team. However she is stuck on the fact that she is an A student, (3.9 UW, 4.3W), will have 8 APs, and her brother was a B student, and she feels like she has earned the right to a better school. I think she would be happy there, but she says she wants more prestige :(. She has already been accepted with tons of merit. Ayy! She is right in the middle of Novas profile, has lots of extracurriculars and is an allied sports leader at her HS (its a league for people with disablilities) which I think Nova will love since they do the biggest student led special olympics event in the country every year. So who knows, I am no waffling back and forth between just leaving it EA and switching to ED2 if she gets deferred (risking a WL or rejection I guess), but will need to sit down and talk to her and weigh the pros and cons. It has to be her decision ,but all of this input has provided great foder for holding steady on EA for now. TY!
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Wait list data is typically reported on the common data set of each school. Here’s the link to Nova’s: https://www1.villanova.edu/content/dam/villanova/enroll/registrar/CDS_2020-2021.pdf
Look under section C2
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Each school’s common data set.
Just google the school and common data set. Section C2.
My kids went to - the ultimate safety we didn’t even know he applied to. I suggested he do (Bama) but it was “beneath” him - til it was job shadow or college visit day and three friends invited him to go. I thought for sure he was going to Purdue (engineering) but Bama’s single room overcame Purdue’s prestige due to Purdue’s housing issues (they overenroll as - everyone wants to go there).
Daughter to 16 of 17 in rank - but I knew she was going here the minute she visited - College of Charleston - even though she wanted to apply everywhere. When she narrowed to four, then two, then told us, it was a giant shrug. We were like - and tell us something we didn’t’ know It was her #2 technically - she claimed AU was #1 but when she saw the merit was low, she said - that’s gone -without batting an eye - I don’t think she was going anyway.
I do think people have to remember - these are businesses - pure and simple. They have bondholders (they borrow money), credit ratings to keep high, revenues and expenses. The student is the consumer - and they know in this case many are emotional and they use all the tricks in the bag.
So - you have a safety, that gives merit and she loves it - a third strike against ED Not sure her major - but are outcomes materially different?
Define better - and this is the problem with kids? Kids, not the school, will make their life.
My kid is, I think it’s 14 now - interviewing with 14 companies from Bama - not on anyone’s radar for engineering. I’m surprised - but guess what, he found jobs on indeed he likes and has applied. Plenty of rejected resumes - but plenty of opportunity. It’s about the kid, not the school.
Prestige sells magazines - she has to be somewhere 4 years, day after day.
So you have choice A at cost A and choice B at cost B.
Then ED comes down to you - monetarily. You said you’d like to be able to compare offers. If you get into Nova, you can’t. If mom had to choose, if mom/dad looked at four years into the future and had another $50 or $100 or $150K in the pocket - is that meaningful to you? Nothing wrong with saying - sorry - from a budget POV, we need to keep options open.
And then to me - the dance thing should be huge.
Your daughter fell into the magazine selling trap. Many do. I did. I wanted my kid at Purdue. Turns out he’s likely in the same place as he’d have been there.
My daughter at Charleston - doing AMAZING things with AMAZING opportunities - but I worry about her future because of her majors (Intl Studies and Poli Sci" - but I’d have the same concern if it was Michigan, etc.
Kids earn their future by hustle, persistence…not the school. And companies mostly pay by location…not by I got someone at Nova vs. Butler.
Butler is #1 in its category in US News - hard to compare pedigree wise to Nova - but Nova gets historical pull for being in the NE and for basketball. That’s “marketing”.
Best of luck.
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Will once again keep it simple. Your daughter can only attend one school ultimately.
If cost is the focus and or Butler is a first or equal choice stay EA.
If Villanova is the first choice (dancing considered) and finances a secondary concern by all means switch to ED as it gives you the strongest likelihood of the desired outcome.
For some $ is the guiding variable, for some it is fit, some believe experiences are comparable across schools, some value prestige, etc. it’s personal and hardly black and white. Reality however is if your kid and you want Villanova the answer to your question is undeniably switch to ED.
I am not trying to convince you to apply ED but to make sure your decision is informed and avoid regret after the fact with a rejection or waitlist.
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If she is prepared to ED at all, then it makes sense to switch her to ED2 now. The problem I have with your post though is what are you waiting for? It doesn’t make sense to wait and see if she gets deferred, THEN hope that her chances improve by moving to ED2. To me, that’s a bit of a red flag. I could see an AO thinking “if this kid is now switching to ED after being deferred, why didn’t she just apply ED in the first place? Is she just using this as a strategy and hoping to get out of it somehow if better options come along?” Maybe I’ve read it the wrong way.
I’d just have her contact the regional rep and general admissions office asking for the app to be switched to ED2.
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