You’re welcome. You sound great and very focused. Pkease don’t let some of the negativity on this thread about systems deter you. Others to look into in the general mid Atlantic area --University of Pennsylvania,GMU. I looked at CMU just now-there is still Engineering and Public Policy there. Good luck!
If you get a degree in engineering and then go work for the government then you get politics and engineering together. From what I’ve been told, there are lots of politics there.
@DrGoogle I have been interested in government engineering jobs, so thank you. I didn’t know if politics just naturally incorporated itself into the job or if I should come into the job with a political background.
No political background necessary. Although from what I’ve heard a degree in law is better than engineering.
It was sort of “tongue in cheek” comment because my relatives worked for both state and federal and the complaints I’ve heard are that there are lots of politics involved, not in the sense of political science, but in a sense of dealing with people.
Well, there’s some degree of “politics” involved in most jobs, private or public. In terms of “government” engineering jobs, there are plenty of opportunities for engineers- city and state government (transportation, water , etc , federal jobs with USACE, NOAA, NASA, etc. Also, many engineers in private and non profit research or consulting firms end up working on government contracts.
“Every time a person from a non-technical background takes over an engineering company, an angel’s wings fail in flight.”
Tech stuff gets pretty complicated when it scales up, and requires a lot of different disciplines.
Thing is, every discipline comes with its own arrogance: the CS people know the EE’s software designs belong on a cave wall somewhere, the EE’s are pretty sure the CS types should stick to crayons and the ME’s to legos and lincoln logs. And the ME’s don’t trust anyone who spends that much time with something you can’t see or touch. Yet a successful project needs to keep all these egos in check and bring out everyone’s best.
Typically you find an experienced person who has demonstrated excellence in their own field and earned respect of those in others. Or, you look for someone who has a STEM undergrad and either experience or a graduate degree in Systems Engineering. For undergrad, you can go a couple of different ways - in general both green and seasoned engineers are respectful when dealing with a person from a physics or math ug background, but a BS in physics or math is a bold throw of the dice if you need the MS in SE to make it pay.
The politics mostly comes in knowing the strength of your underlying argument and being able to communicate that to peers and management. It also involves listening and being able to tell the difference between the normal noise of development (“this thing will never work”) and a true weakness in design (“that design is susceptible to damage from a harmonic vibration at …”).
So no, I wouldn’t recommend an undergrad in systems engineering any more than one in OR, and largely for the same reasons.
As someone currently working for the federal government, I’d say that office politics are not different here than in the private sector and are more subdued than they were in academia. The biggest influence of politics seems to be more funding related since Congress is notably useless around now.
50N40W, You may not recommend an undergrad in systems or OR but many employers are hiring these graduates . And systems is considered a STEM degree so not sure why you say you would consider an undergrad STEM graduate, or math or physics undergrads but not an undergrad systems engineer. Obviously, a starting systems engineer is going to need to grow into the field and garner more respect as they gain experience and move along in their career. That is true in any profession.In just looking at the curriculum, an undergrad systems engineer has to take multivariable calculus, differential equations,chemistry, physics, statistics, as well as general engineering courses and specific SE courses.
Here are links of examples of systems at UVa and OR at Cornell. Nobody should do systems or OR if it its not right for them but I see no need to dismiss these disciplines at the undergraduate level out of hand .
Based on your comments, I would focus on IE and OR, and avoid any degree that says “systems” without also saying “industrial”.
You might want to consider economics then - it is a very quantitative field that can have an engineering-like method of analysis while still impacting the politics more directly.
[quote\Politics and engineering are at polar ends of the degree field, so I’m looking for a degree that encompasses both my passions.
[/quote]
Why? One career does not need to fulfill all your interests or needs, and in many cases trying to make it do so can leave you with a bad career and unfulfilled ambitions. You could pursue one as a career, and the other as a passion or hobby, or alternately could consider a political career later in life.
@boneh3ad Which engineering degrees are the most valuable to the federal government?
I really appreciate anyone who has commented on this thread. Based on the majority, I have dropped systems engineering out of the majors I’m interested in and am now more highly considering industrial engineering. Keep the suggestions coming, even if it’s not engineering related.
The federal government uses just about every kind of engineer, either directly or indirectly through contractors. But the only ones even close to political decisions are consultants, most of whom have advanced degrees, significant experience, and are expected to contribute only on technical matters. I can’t think of any engineering discipline that would actually help you in the study or practice of politics.
@cosmicfish My dad graduated with a mechanical engineering bachelor’s degree and is very involved in the management and political decisions of his federal government agency. I don’t want to make political decisions per say just work in a political field, like the federal government.
I think politics in engineering means government policies that affect large production and economic and environmental scales in the nation or the world. BS in system engineering does not have much influence. MS and PhD do.
“BS in systems engineering does not have much influence. MS and PhD do.” That would probably be true of most types of engineering at a policy level.
OP, you will often see Industrial and Systems linked together so some type of systems thinking will probably be in the mix, even with Industrial. If you are in Virginia , check out Virginia Tech (which is highly ranked and will get you where you need to go at an instate price) . If you have the funds to go OOS, you can also check out Georgia Tech , even though it is not in the mid Atlantic It is consistently rated #1 in Industrial and Systems engineering.
@collegechick2000 That depends entirely on what you want to do for the government.
It depends on how high up you are in the government job, some have to go to Congress regularly. Indirect contractors are used for technical help because that is the way Congress set up.
For lots of schools, you don’t have to apply to a particular major within engineering. At schools like VT and UVa, you spend the first year exploring all the engineering majors before committing to one. That gives you time to decide what seems best to you and what makes the most sense, given your interests. You don’t have to feel pressure to figure this all out now. You do have time. If you haven’t already done so, it’s a good idea to take a tour of the engineering departments of the schools you’re interested in. You can ask questions about industrial, systems, and any other areas you may have a potential interest in during your visits to the schools. Some schools probably do admit directly to a particular department but you would need to research any schools you are interested in to find out how they operate in terms of that.
If you want to see how systems engineering is incorporated into a general engineering undergrad program, look at the engineering program at Harvey Mudd College. Mudd’s program emphasizes design and systems but wants graduates to be aware of the impact of their work on society. I realize the school is outside of the region where you want to go, but look at their program because it seems to have an approach that you might look for in schools that you might want to attend.
Yes, Miles, same with UVa and their Systems Engineering degree-required courses for a degree include Science, Technology and Contemporary Issues- Science, Technology, and Society , and Engineering Ethics and Professional Responsibility. There is also a Public Policy track. However, The OP has said she is not interested in Systems now .