T.A.s vs. profs, class size, grads vs. undergrads emphasis

Colleges and Universities A-Z Columbia University
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<p>My daughter has chosen. I’m still curious about a few things, though. The core classes enroll a maximum of 22 students, right? One of our college search books claims that Columbia doesn’t use TAs, but my daughter says that isn’t true. She has visited three core classes. Two (taught by profs) were excellent. One (taught by a TA) was not because although the teacher was nice, she didn't know how to teach. I know that some TAs are probably better than some profs, but how often are teaching assistants employed for teaching the core? </p>

<p>Can you choose your prof (or TA) for the core, or are you assigned? Also, are the Columbia core classes limited to Columbia kids, and Barnard core to Barnard girls, or can you mix? Is it true that Barnard has better profs than Columbia?</p>

<p>How large are non-science classes outside the core in areas such as English and political science? Are there large lectures with smaller discussion groups, or mostly seminar classes? In general, do people find that profs are mostly interested in grad students than undergrads?</p>

<p>My older daughter is finishing her PH.D., and says that large lectures given by brilliant teachers are preferable to small classes taught by grad students, who don’t always know their subjects well enough to teach. So, I’m just fishing for info. Since tuition is $32,000, and one can take at most 10 classes/year, that works out to over $3000/semester-long course. We would hope that the instructor will be good!</p>

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<p>Congrats on your daughter's choice! My son is a freshman there, and loving it. Here are some answers to your qustions:</p>

<p>When I attended an admiitted student/parent seminar last year on the Core, they said that Lit Hum (the freshman year long core course) is taught one third by profs, one third by adjuncts with PHDs, one third by TAs (only high level ones, no beginners.) Students are assigned to their freshman Core courses, no choices possible. They are CU students only, as these courses are specific to the school. Besides Lit Hum, they are assigned to a University Writing course one half, and a Frontiers of Science course the other half, again, no choice. This year, the first half of the alphabet did UW first, and F of S second.</p>

<p>My S has a TA for Lit Hum (finishing up his disertation.) S worships the ground he walks on--he thinks his TA and his classmates are the best of any of his friends' classes, at least he seems to like his the most. The group has really bonded. The TA had a daylong study session for the final in December at his apartment in Brooklyn.</p>

<p>He had a TA for UW, too. Thought very highly of him. I believe that his section leader for F of S is a full prof. The lectures are all by world-renowned scientists, some NObel winners.</p>

<p>He has been in some large lecture classes with brilliant lecturers. He had an anthro course first semester that was absolutely mind-stretching, and a Romanticism course this semester which, though large, is run by the prof only, who does all grading himself. He also had a small Logic class the first semester with a full professor.</p>

<p>My impression is that, at least for him so far, the quality of teaching has been outstanding, both in lectures and in smaller settings.</p>

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<p>Welcome to Columbia! Like Garland, I'll answer based on my son's first year experience. </p>

<p>First, the TAs who teach university writing and lit hum are more like what some institutions call teaching fellows than TAs. They are at least fifth or sixth year grad students, they get training from the core office, and they are offered weekly lectures on the texts they will be teaching with suggestions for what questions they might raise. The university does take the core seriously and try to keep some standard though, of course, there can always be a dud. My son's Lit Hum teacher taught university writing first, and she has been just wonderful. She meets as frequently with the students individually as they want, writes long and thoughtful comments on papers, and he says she is also great at leading class discussion. It's his favorite class and fully lives up to his high expectations for a core experience.</p>

<p>Frontiers of Science is a lecture class with sections, some led by profs and some by post-docs who were hired to teach this class. Lectures are by the top people in their fields. Son liked the lectures, deeply disliked his section mostly because he is a science kid and found the homework and sections more like busywork. (They've taken on a huge and perhaps impossible challenge, to craft a course for both science majors and science-phobic students). University Writing is capped at 12 students and taught only by grad students in English and Comparative Lit, I believe. Since these are students in one of the top departments in the country, so they are extremely smart. They follow a unified curriculum of assignments, which the students gripe about, but it seems like a well-designed writing class and his teacher seems good and conscientious. She offered to meet with him at her apartment during Spring Break when a family emergency forced him to get an extension and turn in a paper late. I won't say he loves it, but he does admit he is learning something about writing.</p>

<p>There is no choice of core instructors, and it is very difficult to switch out unless there is a scheduling conflict. However, students do sometimes switch at the end of a semester if they really hate their section. Also, once you're in to such things as Music Hum, Art Hum, etc, which you have four years to squeeze in, you can sign up every semester and drop the class until you get an instructor you like.</p>

<p>As for other class sizes, you can go online to the bulletin of classes and look up classes by department. You'll see the actual enrollments. Son's introductory physics and econ classes are large lectures (100-200-300) that break into sections. The first physics prof was a fantastic lecturer as is the current econ prof. His math class has 40-50, taught by prof with a section led by TA. He's in a music ensemble that counts as a class (6 students and professional musician), University Writing (12) and Lit Hum (22). So, a wide range of class sizes that I believe is pretty typical. First semester he signed up for but dropped a history class that had about 25, I think.</p>

<p>The online review of profs that you can find, called CULPA, helps students avoid or gravitate towards certain professors and classes. The reviews, of course, tend to the extremes: avoid this professor like the plague, or this professor changed my life. But it is useful. And, though there are nasty reviews I'm impressed by how many students have really wonderful things to say about their professors.</p>

<p>As to how interested profs are in undergrads, first year is probably too early to tell. My son hasn't gone to any office hours that I know of, except for meeting with his LitHum instructor to bounce ideas before writing a paper. He did go to dinner at the faculty club with a small group of students and his math prof, under a program Columbia has. I actually think he found it awkward and decided maybe he'd rather wait until he is further along in deciding what he wants to do before seeking professors out! (That's just the way he is.) Anyway, I believe he's getting a great education. </p>

<p>And, you can take more than 10 classes a year. Son took six first semester (counting music and PE) and six this semester (counting music). He is working his butt off this semester, because all five of his academic classes are heavy duty. But he thought he could have added more the first semester. Columbia students tend to be gluttons for punishment -- or education -- depending on how you look at it.</p>

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<p>I can't answer all your questions, but whoever told you that TA's don't teach courses was misinformed. In fact, Columbia gives more responsibility to grad TA's than pretty much any other school I know (public or private), in that they don't just lead sections or recitations- they are often completely in charge of the course, which is unheard of at most of Columbia's peers. </p>

<p>That having been said, even with a green, untrained 2nd or 3rd year grad student in charge of the class, you may not be any worse off than with a tenured full professor. Many of them approach their duties with more diligence and enthusiasm than the "real" faculty, since (1) the grad students anticipate that they're more likely to end up in a teaching-oriented position than at an ivy league thinktank like Columbia and (2) if the faculty in a department cared about teaching, they wouldn't leave it to green, untrained grad students. </p>

<p>Anyway, Columbia's a great school. However, the teaching's going to be a real mixed bag (and some of it is going to be really great). But what makes it worth (?) the price tag is the name, the environment and the opportunities.</p>

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<p>Fascinating post, sac!</p>

<p>< He's in a music ensemble that counts as a class (6 students and professional musician) ></p>

<p>Is that by any chance the jazz band with Washburne? I'd like to hear more about that group. Do you know how selective it is, and also how selective private lessons are with Columbia faculty? (i.e. number of auditions for number of places)</p>

<p>Thanks!</p>

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<p>It's a jazz ensemble, but not Washburne's. (He aspires to that... some day). The great part of the jazz performance program is that anybody intermediate or higher who auditions will get placed in an ensemble, while at other universities if you don't make the big band, that's it for university-sponsored opportunities. So, you will always get a chance to play whether or not you're a music major, and the group will be led by someone with significant experience who probably gigs a lot (son's is led by a young jazz pianist and composer). Bad news is that you compete with the whole Columbia community for lessons and for Washburne's group, so it just depends on what instrument you play and how good the other people are who are there.</p>

<p>This is NYC, after all. The jazz is GOOD. My son plays a very popular instrument -- he was placed on a waiting list for lessons and didn't get them. He could probably find someone at Manhattan School of Music to study with, but hasn't had the time or money. He says the other students he heard audition were great. The student playing his instrument in Washburne's group is a mid-twenties something grad student in math who minored at Princeton in musical performance and who plays all over town in three or four different kinds of bands. The pianist in the group last year, when my son listened in, was a grad student in music who's been on the faculty at Stanford jazz camp. On the other hand, my son says he knows a first year who plays guitar in Washburne's group.</p>

<p>Great to see more jazz musicians heading to Columbia. (You're not interested in klezmer by any chance?)</p>

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<p>Now I understand how education at Columbia works. I'm so glad that she can take more than 10 courses/year, because I think she wants to study almost everything in the school catalogue, minus math and physics... Also, I'm re-assured that most of her classes will be top notch.</p>

<p>So, thanks for the excellent posts, even including the discussion of jazz in New York. My daughter plans to audition for free voice lessons, and recently sang at jazz benefit. In fact, the music scene was what helped her make the final decision over a LAC.</p>

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<p>Thanks sac! What instrument does he play?</p>

<p>Klezmer...maybe. We'll see.</p>

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<p>Pardusmi -- The music in NYC also tipped the balance for my son when he was making his decisions. There is a useful website called gothamjazz that lists events and clubs, including how expensive different venues are and whether or not they offer student discounts. As for taking all the classes in the catalogue, that is also my son's problem. You just can't do it all, and have extra curriculars, and explore the city, and ...get some sleep. What strikes me, at least from a distance, is what a really intense place it is both intellectually and in general. But she should go a little easy on the units the first semester.</p>

<p>abcdefghijklm -- (did I get all the letters?) saxophone. how about you?</p>

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<p>sac -- trumpet. Reading your posts, it's encouraging to hear such positive descriptions of the music and educational opportunities at Columbia!</p>

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<p>well, this is a parent's view of course -- we like to think we're getting our money's worth. :)</p>