To be honest, I’ve been in similar situations before as a student. My ACT was over a 32 and I got A’s in those impossible-to-get-A’s-in classes and other times I just bombed out with certain professors.
One professor whose class I got a B in (despite working my arse off) ended up becoming my closest advisor. I still email him back and forth for feedback on papers and ideas despite being a few years out of undergrad.
History writing is different from English writing. They are two different disciplines and have two different styles.
I might not understand the difference but I’m sure my son does. I would bore you with his awards he was won in History. They include state, national and one international award. Maybe all three honor students deserved Cs. I am just not liking TAs very much right now and wish I were wealthy enough to have afforded a private university.
Again, you would run into this at the most prestigious private schools. Maybe even more, because a new TA might think rigor was required for his or her own success as a teacher.
I don’t mean to offend, but I feel badly reading the way you value your son for his awards and scores, and his peers for their NMS. Some of the best writers didn’t do well in school at all Intelligence comes in many forms.
It seems this TA has affronted you: let this be your son’s battle. And please try to see that a TA giving a C may want to motivate and teach via grades. It is not a competition. A little failure (and this isn’t even failure) is good for the soul.
I can tell you for sure that your son’s future will not suffer because of a C on one essay.
Romanigypsyeyes, I always appreciate your posts and your presence here.
As a parent of a student at a flagship and spouse of a humanities professor, I would be surprised if a first year Ph.D. student is a TA already. While she certainly could be a first year grad student, the more typical route is that a first year grad student is taking courses themselves and is no put in a position to TA the first year. You can usually get more information about grad students’ areas of research etc. by going onto the department website.
As for the gap between the fall seminar and this TA, it is entirely possible that the renowned author was not focusing on teaching academic paper writing skills in the fall seminar whereas the TA has been told it is her job to get potential majors ready for the rigor of the department.
In any event, the appropriate first step is to schedule an appointment with the TA during her office hours and get specific feedback.
Midwest is correct. Most students’ packages are structured so that they don’t start teaching until at least the 2nd year. And, at least at my uni, you have to go through training before getting thrown into a classroom.
And, as mentioned elsewhere, even private unis often use TAs.
Further, no offense, but awards don’t mean much to us. I have awards, I know plenty of people that have awards, and that’s cool for a CV but doesn’t mean a thing for an assignment.
It is even possible- and I’m not saying your extremely hardworking and intelligent son would do something like this- that this assignment was kind of blown off and that came through. Or it’s possible that the TA grades harshly on individual papers but that the overall grade at the end of the course is much more lenient (that is how my previous upper-level writing course was graded).
As romani notes, any research university will have TAs and depend on them for leading discussion sections of lecture courses – including the mighty Ivies, Northwestern, Duke etc.
It is small liberal arts colleges that do not have grad students and a TA structure in place.
The theme of many of the last few posts has been that you should stop trying to find fault with the TA. Your job as a parent should be to get you student to figure out how to best perform in the situation he finds himself in.
We find nothing wrong with suggesting that meet with the TA and/or the professor, BUT I don’t think you should be supporting your child’s suggestion that the TA is at fault (even if they are).
The comment most telling from the TA is “you don’t even have a main point.” It sounds to me that it is quite likely that your S’s paper lacked focus and was off topic. He should suck it up and learn from it. Figure out how to develop a more solid conclusion on the next paper. While writing the next paper he should discuss and refine his position with the TA during office hours.
My point was that grading Calculus and Physics problems isn’t particularly subjective, so I didn’t really have to worry about that aspect of it. Either they got points or they didn’t. Obviously, you are very sensitive to the fact that your S is superior.
You can only hope that they fire her before she does any more damage. Clearly, she does not belong in this position.
@midwestmomofboys and @romanigypsyeyes, I was a TA in my first year of a PhD program in a large state flagship and so were all my classmates. This was a very highly regarded graduate program and the major was considered very strong at the undergraduate level. We received no TA training. We got free tuition and a small stipend and in exchange we were expected to serve as TA (or teacher in later years) for whatever class we were assigned. No one turned down a TA position (unless they had a fellowship). My first semester I was assigned as TA in an upper-level course for which I had limited knowledge. I just tried to stay a chapter ahead. Don’t know if this situation has changed much in large state schools.
I can certainly say it is not the case at the two large state schools I’ve attended.
And according to gradcafe’s posted packages, many are not TA’ing their first years.
Sometimes busy faculty find it easier to give As than to respond critically and help students become better writers. It is a lot of work to teach student to write in the genres, discourses, and methods required in a discipline. Furthermore students sometimes do not appreciate the criticism necessary to make them better writers.
TA’s will have differing opinions even from one another. One course can be taught and evaluated by several different TA’s that grade differently, even with a rubric. It is not consistent compared to one professor doing all the evaluations, but it is the way it is at certain colleges. Some TA’s are better than others, granted, just as some professors are better than others. This is one of those necessary logistics at universitiies with graduate students. I hope your son learns something from this TA< as well as something about himself. College is a great time to learn many things, one being that grades aren’t the end all be all. Your son will be better for this experience if for no other reason than taking a critical view of himself and another’s assessment. It’s great preparation for life in the real world where not everyone thinks the same.
DS went to top LAC and TA’d orgo as an 18 year old sophomore (and then some math classes as a junior). True, there were pretty objective grading standards, but he was also responsible for explaining some fairly difficult material. The good thing was that as a young, marginally qualified TA, he saw himself as a helper and advocate for the students and didn’t hold himself out as an expert.
I’ve spoken to others who didn’t have TAs for similar classes, and I actually have come around to the TA model, even if they are undergrads. DS’s students had a resource for assistance who was almost always available to them. That being said, it’s irresponsible when the professors give over too much teaching, or grading discretion to TAs.
Well I wouldn’t expect a TA to grade easier on principle. The TA may have higher expectations than some professors. The TA might be trying to shock kids into writing better papers. This might be a higher level course with higher expectations. Or the TA may be totally off base. A TA shouldn’t being giving more or fewer C’s or A’s than the professor would.
And yes, don’t antagonize either the TA or the professor if you go in and talk to them. Just ask for how to improve. And definitely see if you can run the next paper by the TA in advance.
I was a TA in a large flagship state school. What I found were students trying to write “up” to what they thought was a collegiate or research level, but in fact, they were just writing down a series of words that truly had no main point. I wrote a lot on their first drafts. At first students were a bit stunned at the red ink but when they actually read the red ink, they realized I asked questions and the smart ones used the questions to tighten their papers. The arrogant ones complained to the professor who read the remarks and agreed with me. Don’t assume the professor will override the TA.
I had no clue what these students scored on the SAT or ACT, I did not know about their high school awards. And to be honest, I didn’t care. Sorry to be so harsh. The best thing for you to do is listen to your son’s woes and support him emotionally but don’t automatically assume the TA is inexperienced; doesn’t know jack; is clueless. Your son is obviously bright so he will figure things out and move on without antagonizing people. He should view the TA as a resource, not an adversary.
This attitude isn’t going to help him at all. I don’t even understand this question. Why should he get an A from a TA?
Typically, an instructor must have 18 grad credits in-field to teach a lower level course. So many 2nd year grad students (and even some 1st semester) may directly teach the subject. As a TA, however, they are not the “real” instructor. The university probably sets some limitations to avoid accreditation/ranking issues stemming from unqualified personnel teaching three-quarters of the course.
As for composition issues . . . TA comments very likely reflect comments they have received on their own thesis work. Often their adviser is the instructor they TA for. . . so this gal’s comments may very well reflect the professor’s opinions!
I went to a CTCL LAC with no TAs. Small classes and close contact with inspiring profs. In my 1st year as a M.A. student at a top 50 Natl Univ I taught 2 classes per semester as a TA with no training. I had little idea what I was doing, though I did my best. Doing my Ph.D. at a different Univ (also top 50 natl U) I was a prof’s TA, graded all of his papers and tests. I was still learning as I went along. I will be encouraging my own children to consider LACs, especially CTCLs, based on my experience.
Maybe he deserved the C, maybe he didn’t. I’m in no position to judge. What I do see here is a golden opportunity for your son. He has the chance to meet with this TA in a friendly, non defensive way and to understand what thinking underlies the C. It’s an opportunity to learn from someone who thinks differently and may have something valuable to offer. If he can open himself up to this learning, he’ll go so far. Defensiveness almost always gets in the way.
I remember working with a supervisor on some legal writing and morphing from a person who thought she was more qualified than the supervisor to a person who realized she had an awful lot to learn. My writing benefited greatly from that experience and the bonus was that I ended up with a close friend and mentor besides.
Intelligence comes in many forms.