TA and Essay grading

“Minutiae” Oh, the horrors! Who could be expected to understand such words? If “details” would do just as well, the TA might have a semi-point. But in some cases, one really means “minutiae.”

@wilderzengirl, I’m glad your son’s meeting with the TA turned out well. I’m sorry that the TA is not what you would hope but maybe the mysterious complainant will keep her in line for the rest of the semester. He sounds like he’s got the right idea on how to handle things.

@QuantMech, haven’t you come across papers that are chock full of misplaced verbiage? I interviewed a kid whose resume suggested that he’d created, manages, and now serves as chief editor of a publication. Seemed impressive. Then I read the essay he’d included as part of his package. Oh my. It was awkward and awful. Any time a simple word would have fit, he’d substituted a more “impressive” word. You know, like using “minutiae” when “details” would be more apt. Young writers don’t yet understand that “complicated words” can complicate the writing to a point where it’s an obstacle to conveying meaning. I’m not saying anything about the OP’s son here. I’m only suggesting that the TA’s comments in and of themselves would not have raised red flags.

3girls3cats, yes, that’s it exactly. It’s like some kids want to impress everyone with how many SAT words or Thesaurus words they can cram into one paper. After all, it got them awards! I was guilty of this a bit when I started college, but my (full professor) first-year writing teacher kindly explained how to write better without sounding like I ate a prep book. I’d be a little concerned by a prof who didn’t see a need for simplification in such cases.

Also, the only names of profs my parents ever knew were those in my department who threw a graduation reception for us, because they met them. It’s absolutely unnecessary to know your kids’ profs’ names, Google them, and be as involved in their every day school life as some parents are today. I have friends whose kids can’t cope with the smallest setbacks on their own, and we wonder why?

@wilderzengirl I never had a TA in college or grad school. But I did have a variety of professors. Senior year, I encountered a newly minted PhD who was clearly uncomfortable with anyone whom he perceived as an intellectual threat in the classroom. (The only prof I had there who was like this: the school normally not only encouraged but demanded class participation and good discussion skills.) He gave me my first B on a literature paper. I went in to talk to him. How could I have improved the paper? “It’s hard to say.” Could you show me an example of what you consider to be an A paper? “That wouldn’t be fair.” (I remember his answers verbatim, after all these years. :slight_smile: I left, viewing him with even more contempt than when I went in.

Your son’s TA may be planning to really crank up everyone’s writing skills. Or she may just be a jerk, like my prof.

But here’s the thing, something I told my S in 7th grade when he was dealing with a teacher who clearly did not like him and whom HE viewed with (justified, IMHO) intellectual contempt: it is your responsibility as a student to figure out what the teacher wants. Even if you find them difficult to communicate with, or have no respect for their intellectual abilities, and yes, even if they are unfair. (And some are.) Because if you do not, YOU are the one who will suffer, not the teacher. Although the real value in education is the learning you experience–and my S, like yours, I think, was motivated not by grades, but intellectually–not getting grades that meet a certain standard WILL limit your future choices. (This is, of course, leaving aside the fact that there is usually something to be learned from every experience, even if not what you thought it was going to be going in. B-) )

Clearly, your son is under extra pressure if maintaining his scholarship requires a high GPA. I think being supportive does not preclude encouraging him to figure out how to please this TA.

I do not necessarily disagree with the absence of “bad” motivation, but there is more to the story than a naïve freshman using his HS awards to question a grade. The same student did well in a previous class graded by a professor. The TA admitted she missed the mark and had to consult with her “employer” for directions. And then there was the nebulous and rather poorly written note about too complicated words.

All of this, unfortunately, reverts to the same old story: schools throw poorly prepared, untrained, and perhaps unqualified students in front of others who are barely their juniors, and then they hope that all will be well! If such system works when the lead instructor retains controls of the curriculum and MONITORS the grading and section instruction, there is a slight chance it will work. Such chances increase when the TA can fill the holes through administrative functions and perhaps grading that does not require more than collating a scantron or checking an answer sheet for correlation. When it comes to subjective grading that requires a previous AND related education, the wheels start to fall off. The romantic view is that the TA should have gained experience in the field they happen to provide assistance to the teachers, but that is not necessarily the case as the recruitment and selection are often based on more crass criteria, including basic funding promises.

The bottom line is there is one is that students cannot DO much about this situation, and especially not when it turns into the usual disgrace. No student endear themselves by complaining, and are often met with a wall of silence as the students are not the important cog. As a result, it is better to lick the wound and move on. The worst part is that students are able to navigate away from the occasional academic siren but cannot do so when picking classes taught by “staff” or when the possible TA are unknown. Switching sections is not always the answer.

In the end, there is probably no nefarious motivation at play, but simply a lack of motivation to deliver an education that relates to the cost paid by the student.

I can’t edit my post above, but I cross-posted with the OP. Glad to hear that there was a reasonable outcome. The plan the TA agreed to sounds very constructive.

In this case the cost paid by the student is nothing RE post #84

blossom (#75), I meant that the TA is “helping herself,” because she wants to please the prof with her work, for all sorts of reasons. The prof wants a course that runs smoothly, without excessive complaints from students. The prof especially doesn’t want students going to the Department Chair or Dean with complaints. Didn’t an earlier post say that the Dean was recommending specific courses to this student?

I’m not big on short, punchy, declarative statements. This comes as no news to anyone who has read my posts! :slight_smile: I’m really big on writing that conveys clearly the information that it was supposed to convey.

My hat is off to anyone willing to become a grad student in the humanities. That’s practically counter-cultural at this point. I believe that the humanities are really important. So I don’t mean to dump on the TA. I just mean that I wouldn’t assume that the TA genuinely wants to help the student. In my experience, some do and some don’t.

Off the topic, but this reminds me of a college joke.

A student is finishing up his test in a large class and the prof calls time. “Ok, all papers need to be on my desk NOW”. Student calmly continues writing, finishes, and walks to the front. The prof glares at him. “I said the test is over, you are to late. Fail.” “Do you know who I AM?” demands the student. “No, and I don’t care!” replies the prof. “Good!” says the student, slips the paper into the middle of the stack, and walks out.

@sseamom I know every family is different. My S and I are it; no brothers no sisters, so he and I are very close. He calls and texts me every day and he talks about his day. He mentions Pofessors and TAs by names and I remember who they are because I have a decent memory and I listen. I will say this; I don’t think the Professors or TAs should ever know my name. And of course there are setbacks in life; you depend on your family to help you through them. Just being there and being supportive and giving advice to an 18 year old away from home for the first time is natural; I think. Imagine going through life and not having one to share it with; that’s sad. Someday my S will most likely get married and have a spouse and kids of his own to help him through setbacks. Right now; I think that’s my job. The only negative thing about this site is when you get on here to talk about academic issues it turns into “you’re not doing a good job as a parent”. To all of you who gave great advice on handling the TA; thanks!

When thesaurus use goes bad: In his first year at prep school, George W. Bush evidently wrote about “lacerates” running down his cheek, due to a misreading of the entry on “tear” in the thesaurus.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/campaigns/wh2000/stories/bush072799.htm

I have seen some annoying misuses of uncommon words in student papers, sure. (I probably see far fewer of them than other profs do, since I am a scientist.)

On the other hand, I have seen at least one essay by a student who bought so far into the “short, simple sentences” mantra that I think the essay was written at about fourth grade level. It was actually painful to read. I know that the student could write with greater complexity of thought. This sometimes requires complex sentences.

While trying to hunt down a reference to the Bush essay problem, I started searching on “lachrymose,” just due to misremembering.

John Boehner. Lachrymose. Tell me it doesn’t work. :slight_smile:

Well, some think that grading papers “its a real torcher”! Hate to throw fuel on the “too complicated” words!

Source: http://science-professor.blogspot.com/2013/04/of-course-its-true-that-professors.html

I’m glad the situation has been resolved. It sounds like the student did the right thing. Mom, you are doing fine, too.
Once upon a time I was a freshman comp. TA at a big state u. I remember how we were trained to grade using a rubric-- we sometimes had group grading where each paper was graded by several TAs/profs to make sure standards were similar throughout the dept. I had a couple years of classroom teaching/grading experience before I was a TA, but it was still difficult. The dept. chairman once asked me if I would change a final course grade. (The student’s mother had called the dept.–begging for a C so her daughter could continue in cheerleading. The student had not approached me about the grade before this. I think she was afraid or didn’t know what to do–that is why she talked to her mom, and her mom called the dept. office. I can understand how this happened.) I did not hesitate to change the grade, but it was my decision. I was not in trouble or under threat from the chairman.

If my own kids have issues with their grades-- if they believe there has been a mistake, or that a grading policy is unfair, or if they just don’t understand why they received the grade they did–I always tell them to approach the teacher politely. Teachers/TAs are only human. Humans sometimes make mistakes. If something seems “unreasonable,” speak up and present your case calmly. TAs are not out to make people lose scholarships (or get kicked off the cheerleading squad).

@atommom, thanks for your kind words and your kind spirit. This whole going away to college thing is new and fun and slightly terrifying in so many ways! I like to read how others deal with it as I live in an area where hardly anyone goes to college. I don’t have good resources readily available to me. I did have to laugh at my son today as he is dealing with another issue; he wants to ask his Statistic professor a question about the syllabus and he is scared because he says the Professor “has the approachability of a rabid junk yard dog.” I said, Buck up and ask. It’s all you can do honey!

The TA didn’t have the flu.

According to the OP that was what the TA said. Are you somehow related to this TA or possibly the professor in question to have such inside knowledge?

Welcome to the world of TAs. Since time immemorial TAs have been known to be harder, probably because TAs are graduate students and a lot of them tend to be crowing. All S can do is try to adapt. I have always felt profs are easier graders than TAs (usually), sometimes the most brilliant profs are the easiest. Maybe S needs to step outside his comfort zone. While everything was a breeze before, this is called life. They’ll always be left hooks and the best thing a student can do is learn to navigate it on his own. S has to figure out what should be done to accommodate the TA. He should go talk to TA and nicely ask for suggestions. And you know what? He may never get an A.

I’m not sure as a parent, though, this is an area you should be involving yourself with, except giving him positive suggestions. And I would not go and complain about a TA because your son didn’t get an A.

The OP was never planning to interject herself. She was just asking about how to advise her son. She is new to this as well and is learning where the boundaries are and how much and when to advise. To pull a line that I love from a guy that I don’t love so much (Donald Rumsfeld) - it’s the unknown unknowns that are the ones you worry about. If you come from a place where people don’t go to college and you don’t have that experience it isn’t unnatural for an earnest parent to worry about the things that they don’t know. It will get easier as he learned to take up these things for himself - it’s fun to see that transformation happen.

It sounds like this was an “all’s well, that ends well” situation. The student learned how to positively advocate for himself. He learned that sometimes it is what it is and you make the best of it. He learned that he is in school because he still has things to learn and isn’t perfect. Those are all great lessons to have this early into his academic career. Coming from a place where people don’t go on to college and he was the deserved shining star, he may encounter more situations where he has to get used to being one of many. That is another valuable lesson that you (OP) can help support him through. It can be hard, particularly with that scholarship worry, to understand that it’s OK to make mistakes and be imperfect and to be in a situation where you aren’t top of the heap.

I think new TAs are also biased from their own experience…They are a TA because they are excellent at what they do academically. They may feel that they could have written better as a freshman…but they were an exceptional student. Or they may forget how they wrote as a freshman and are comparing it to how they would write now. Clearly the professor has talked to them and they have recalibrated their expectations.

What did you find out that makes you say this?