@ClassicRockerDad In D’s case, I don’t think its the money, its the name. She isn’t so much into that but her peers are pushing for the name recognition and are insisting that she is “settling” if she doesn’t strive to work for one of them. I like your strategy with students. And I agree that you should take jobs where you can learn or grow in your career. I don’t know that at 21 many kids know where they want to specialize and that’s half D’s problem…she doesn’t really, really know what she wants. Hell, I don’t know what I want to be when I grow up LOL
Agree generally when one has the choice. However, some students are in financial situations (needing to pay off significant student loan debt) that require them to make money the primary consideration. This may be less of a consideration for a CS major in a good-for-employees job market than for many other students, or in other job market conditions.
Any company, even an insurance company, that fills all theirs spots in the fall for the following year is a competitive employer. Not everybody has the personality to do these rotation positions (how does your daughter feel about moving around quite a bit in a year?) Not everybody has the personality to work for Google or Amazon (cut-throat environments with high burnout and turnover.)
New graduates don’t stay in their first tech job for very long any more (1-2 years tops). They don’t just switch companies they switch industries (so she would not be trapped in insurance forever). Most entry levels don’t do cutting edge tech work even in companies where cutting edge tech work is happening.
All job offers have an expiration date (never before heard the term exploding offer). It isn’t fair to either party to hold on to an offer indefinitely (that being said they sometimes can be flexible with decision dates - offer an extension or some companies offer “signing bonuses” for those who accept quickly).
She needs to evaluate this offer (without the noise from her friends) - does she like the location, is the wage/benefits package fair, does she think the company/job will provide her with the chance to grow and expand her skills, is the company culture a good fit for her, etc.
Think of a job offer in the fall of senior year like getting an ED college acceptance, you can relax and enjoy the rest of your senior year without worry.
I’m also going to add that while a hot degree, finding a job in CS is still a challenge. D had a lot of rejections, one after 4 interviews. She was in the process for a residency (all interviews done and packet on the way to hiring), when all the spots were filled (had been warned that could happen). In the end, yes, things turned out really well, and she has a name on her resume that can probably get her a lot of interviews in the future, but she also spent the summer at home, working remotely at her college job.
Your D’s friends probably mean well, but the job offers don’t fall from the sky just for applying. Your D knows this from her interview search. This is a first job, not a lifelong commitment.
Well, while the thread has been helpful in sorting out additional pros and cons that we might not have thought of, it looks divided pretty evenly and so we’re back at square one LOL. D will speak with one of the hiring managers at the company this afternoon and get a clearer idea of what exactly the rotation involves. She is also speaking with career services. She did have a meeting with her favorite CS professor who said “you will find a job after graduation, that I am sure, but this is also a solid offer”, so he was not terribly helpful either unfortunately.
I’m pretty conservative about these types of things and would say to take the offer in hand.
Take the first job based on thinking about the next job – particularly what practical skills and experience will be developed.
Personally, that “rotation with a guaranteed job (somewhere)” is a gigantic red flag for me, and sounds like she could get jammed in a discipline she is not interested in developing. (Hello there all you midnight-6 DBAs!).
My advice: She should go in and say “I want to work here but I want to do [whatever]” and see if they will guarantee her that. If not, run away, because they are looking for cannon fodder.
I never feel comfortable making recommendations for questions like this. Just not enough background info. But the one thing I would make sure she knows is that her first job will not define her. It’s just her first stop on her career path. For whatever job she chooses she should be able to see how it fits into her longer term plan.
This offer sounds like it could be from my employer, although I have no connection to the software end of things. My employer is doing a lot of rotations with new hires. While there is no guarantee you will get your choice of where you end up, there is a lot of opportunity for movement within the company so you are not necessarily stuck in one position forever. Being well rounded and being able to move among other departments as needed is highly valued and rewarded. I understand the allure of working for a Google or Microsoft as opposed to an insurance company as I have a son studying software engineering, but the odds of getting such a position are tough. I don’t think working for an insurance company forecloses such a move in the future.
Many companies use the rotational model for leadership development candidates so that may be worth clarifying as well.
Rotations are an excellent way to figure out what the best role is for both the employee and employer.
If she likes the location and is not a tippity top student, I would take it.
Software salaries at some of the large tech companies including signing bonuses and stock options etc approach 200k per year. I have personally seen those offers. I am in the camp that 80k is way too low. I think the OPs daughter is very well qualified and can a lot better than working for an insurance carrier for 80k.
Those $200k pay levels look like outlier ones, since the typical pay levels shown in career surveys (like MIT, CMU, and UCB) are much lower than $200k for CS graduates. For example, https://capd.mit.edu/sites/default/files/about/files/GSS2017.pdf (page 26) shows that course 6-3 bachelor’s graduates from MIT in 2016 found median pay of $107k and median sign-on bonus of $15k, although someone did get a $260k offer (the high end of the range).
@ucbalumnus If you look on glassdoor and add the salary of about 130 and the cash bonus , stock bonus and profit sharing it is around 200k for places like Facebook and Google. Lets not forget the free food, free dry cleaning and the budget for massages and the company outings to sporting events to improve moral. Some of the startups may substitute some of the pay for stock.
I’m no expert, but even though she doesn’t want to go into insurance I think the job rotation aspect is a big plus. I think it would give her a good chance to see different aspects of the industry and give her a better idea of what her real strengths are in the work world. It’s easier and less stressful to find a new job if you are already employed.
Re: #53
Facebook and Google are well known and probably highly selective due to huge numbers of people who want to work there. New graduates in CS should not rely on getting a job there or similar pay elsewhere.
Most startups do not hit the stock option jackpot.
Lots of companies pay similar salaries like LinkedIn or Airbnb. I think the better question is what languages will she be working in and what marketability does those languages have to other tech companies? Maybe one of the more tech savy posters could chime in on this.
I have one more comment. Lots of developers in a company like that will be hoping to work in new technologies. Generally there are fewer spots in those roles than people who want them. Now —she might snag a permanent role doing what she wants, especially if she has some coursework in it. But she might not. And then she would have spent a year not necessarily building skills in the area she is interested in.
And just how acurrate is Glassdoor. When negotiating a starting salary, d’s Employer told her it would not negotiate based on cost of living or “what Glassdoor says people here are making.” It would only negotiate based on real data.
Well, I will say this…she is not setting her sights on a salary upwards to $200K. From our research in the Boston area, entry-level for her qualifications (which are not MIT grad equals by any stretch, remember she attended a small LAC without some of the 400 level classes other grads have done) sits in the $80-$100K range excepting the outliers. If something falls into her lap at more then fantastic, but that is the range she is assuming she will land in.
I agree that because Facebook, Google et all are so highly selective they are most likely not on her radar. She would be interested though in similar companies that are less selective. One of the ways she explained this to me is that she doesn’t want to work for a company that is producing just for their own use but one that is producing for the market itself. Its all greek to me though.