Personally, I am a fan of rotations at the outset. It’s really hard to know what each job actually is on a day to day basis and how it fits into the company overall. If she loops for another job later on, she’ll have a lot of things to draw from - no pigeon holing.
And while I understand that she’d like to code for the masses rather than the company, this is an opportunity to get direct feedback from the "customer " rather than doing a giant beta test. Kinda like being hired to design a customer gown rather than designing a line of clothes for Target. It’s all relevant at the beginning.
Another conversation with the company could be informative and could also give her a chance to clarify which rotations would be best for her. She has a little more leverage with this company than she may with others because they know and like her.
OP’s daughter is interested in AI/ML, more advanced technology. In that space, things move very fast - new technology, new methodology…If I were the daughter I would ask companies she is interested in on how fast they are able to do test and learn. At most insurance companies, they have very long and antiquated process in introducing a new vendor (software). It may take as long as 6-12 months for legal, procurement and architecture to approve any new vendor. If their infrastructure does not have a Discovery Environment (on prem or on cloud) then getting a new software installed could also take months.
At few insurance companies I was involved with I have suggested for them to come up with a new process in doing software POC (proof of concept). Some companies have set up labs in silicon valley to do just that. Have your daughter ask if this company have such lab. If so, ask if she would have an opportunity to work at the lab.
She will never find this at an insurance company. They tend to be very proprietary of their products. Your daughter interned at this insurance company, so she must have some sense on how they work. I think based on what your D said she wants out of a job, this insurance job may not be a good fit. She is too young to settle for a paycheck. I am getting close to 60 and I am still taking risks.
I think a well funded startup company in a hot area is an ideal place for an ambitious new grad in Boston. Working two years in a startup is like working 5 years in a larger company. You don’t need rotations in a startup because you are exposed to everything. You can also make some terrific money, but again, I think that should be secondary for a first job. I think the benefits are that you see a whole company with a singular focus and get to work with colleagues who share that singular focus. You would also start to learn about business, marketing, finance, product development, etc. Learning about this stuff can’t be helped because it’s all around you. The top people in the company are usually accessible to you, so the mentoring can be terrific.
If Boston is one of her target cities, the biotech area is big (Cambridge). Akemai is also based there. Lots of opportunity. Agree with the comments about a startup/small company. That’s what my son chose (neither a startup, nor a “small” company, but a company with a small footprint of software engineers in a fast-moving, consumer oriented company, so he gets to do a lot of different things)
Like Rivet said, don’t forget, coming out to Seattle gives local access to Amazon, Google, Facebook, Microsoft, and a decent startup culture. A bunch of S1’s and D’s friends have graduated into the software market here the past three years.
One caveat from talking to one of the higher ups at one of the above mentioned places: the math geniuses with some programming skills are the ones being chosen for AI/ML at their place rather than comp scis with math skills.
If she wants to do software, work for a software company where you are the bread and butter of the company. Software companies are dying for females that have coding chops. At my workplace, 9 out of the last 10 civil engineers were woman.
If you are in a cost center, eventually your department will be cut or outsourced when things tighten up.
"Google or Amazon (cut-throat environments with high burnout and turnover.)
“I have not heard that about either place, and everybody I know of who works at these places loves it and is well compensated.”
Amazon is not known as a compassionate place to work, hence the compensation, also I have not heard they’re great at compensation either. Google is better for sure.
“One of the ways she explained this to me is that she doesn’t want to work for a company that is producing just for their own use but one that is producing for the market itself. Its all greek to me though.”
Yeah as someone said above, you won’t find that in insurance. She wants to work on technology that enables other products to function or do their job, an enabling technology. She may want to work on stuff that can be sold to other companies, and not on applications, which she would do at an insurance company. It’s like working on an engine at a car company that gets sold to other auto and motorcycle vendors, as to opposed to working on a car, I think…lol
What I’m hearing (not at the beginning of the thread, but more towards the end) seems to be never take anything but the ideal job in the exact field you want for a very large salary. I’m going to be honest; I think that’s terrible advice. It’s the kind of thinking that, every year, shows us kids upset about having to go to the safety school or dumbfounded that they were completely shut out of all the highly selective schools that were such a good fit for them.
No, don’t settle for something you know you’d hate or that pays way under market for your field, but be realistic. This student had a tough time finding an internship. She found one, but well, welcome to the job market. Even in the lucrative field of CS, there is competition for jobs, and you may not get the one you want just because you applied. So, a new grad needs to ask herself how comfortable she is being unemployed if she wants to pursue a very narrow set of jobs. Doesn’t mind? Fine, go for it. But even then, have a date by which you’ll broaden that search if not employed.
And those well funded start ups? Remember, sometimes they go under. Are you ok with that or do you want some more stability? And if they’re paying the big bucks, the competition is steep and you will be up against people with more experience.
CS is no different than any other field in that your first job is just that…your first job. The student’s prof, who I assume sends off more new grads into the job market than any of us do, called this offer a fair one. Weigh the factors. Consider your values. Make the best decision you can.
Older s declined an opportunity after college to go with a rotation opportunity with a big well known company, but recommended a college friend who did get hired on into this rotation position, and then settled in a job with the company on the E coast. Well, fast forward. Both DS and his friend now work for the same company (not the one the friend first worked for) on the W coast. Neither DS or his friend work for the first company that they started with after college. As others said, they are their first job. Not their last.
No, the advise is to take calculated risks to try to nudge your career in the direction that you want it to go.
It’s October. Work won’t start until June or maybe July. She doesn’t like the position she was offered in October. If it was the only position in April, maybe she should take it. But it is only October. The demand for CS majors is strong. The calculated risk is for her to try to get what she wants because she’s more likely than not to find it.
I do think CS is a little different. People do have a bias against certain types of companies when looking at a resume. I agree that a startup has risks. But there are a lot of software companies between Google and a startup.
Many colleges have 2 job fairs- in the fall and again in the spring. Especially when the market gets stronger, companies try to snare good talent early. So a job offer this early, especially a pressured exploding offer (hope they backed off on that and gave the applicant a bit more time) to me suggests that the student is a strong applicant. She can afford to wait if this isn’t what she wants. And the company obviously liked her as an intern or wouldn’t have extended the offer. Maybe they will give her sufficient time to think.
Not all jobs are found through career fairs. When the student is coming from a small school, it is imperative for the student to be more proactive and apply for jobs outside of career fairs. Small schools are often too small for employers to bother recruiting at. It costs the same to send a few people to a large school and a small school and many more resumes will come back from the large school.
@ClassicRockerDad the career services (at least in STEM fields) at her school are lacking and the job fairs don’t come close to the type of work/companies she would want to work for. Even her study abroad package wasn’t part of their program list, she had to prepare a proposal to attend. They are trying to build their STEM department but these sorts of things are not on the forefront of that just yet I guess. So yes, being proactive has been very important.
Thank you to everyone who responded and gave input. All the responses were given much attention and thought by both myself and D. At 8 pm last night still no decision and then she called me this morning and said she had an internship buddy get in touch to tell her he got a job at Microsoft in Seattle (he turned down Liberty because they offered him NH). They got to talking and he told her that his internship had much of the things she wants to do (hers apparently did not) and that the Seattle base (for Liberty) was the location that would be doing the newest tech stuff.
*Yes, she accepted the offer via email just a couple of hours ago. The relief in her voice was amazing. She sounds excited again. Another friend from her study abroad will be working in the city doing CS as well though I’m not sure of the company. So, there’s a friend base, a job with decent salary, and the potential to learn different aspects of the CS field. She believes the trade-off of accepting this position might mean learning from other new grads what they are doing, with what companies and what the pros and cons are for them and then might have a better idea of where she wants to head in the field. Either way, I don’t think its a negative on her resume. It might put her a year behind but even then I dont’ see the real downside. Right now I’m just happy to have a happy daughter lol.
And, as I’m typing this she texted me that Skidmore College just named her Math Student of the Year. Not sure what that involves but it is helping to brighten an otherwise stressful week. Again, thank you CC community!
Funny that it is Liberty, among insurance companies they are considered a very desirable place to work straight out of college for many reasons - good culture (young for insurance), great training, state of the art tech, great benefits, etc. My daughter went to an open house they had in Boston for college students and she was very impressed. It was one of the companies she “targeted” when she did her job search senior year. Unfortunately, she was not able to job search in the fall (was on a long distance co-op), and they had no entry level positions in the spring. They do all of their entry level hiring into these training, rotational programs.