Take the Extra $100,000 or go to a Private College?

College Search & Selection
21

<p>My Grandfather has been consulting at Cal and other UCs after retiring as president of one. When I was looking at colleges he seriously discouraged me from Cal based on the facts of recent budget cuts and reductions in services. They are enormous and seriously impacting undergrad experience. As grad schools are where Cal shines, the undergrads are feeling the biggest effect of the unfortunate realities of California's budget woes. </p>

<p>he loves these schools and is deeply saddened by what's happening.</p>

22

<p>...but Cal isn't representative of the UC as a whole. I won't deny that I turned down Cal for some of the reasons you listed, but that doesn't make it a bad school...maybe just not right for me and some others. On the other hand, every UC has a different culture so there is generally a place for everyone.</p>

23

<p>OK, but what about UCLA & UCSD? Granted, if I got into CMU/HMC/Cornell/etc. I'd probably get into Berkeley, but I've seen some weird admissions results at my school this year.</p>

24

<p>
[quote]
he seriously discouraged me from Cal based on the facts of recent budget cuts and reductions in services.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>You forget that Cal still receives substantial money from the federal government, its 450,000+ alumni base, and its large endowment...</p>

<p>Methinks your grandfather doesn't see the ins and outs of Cal as he may have used to.</p>

25

<p>Kyle, it's just fact that Cal is facing major budget cuts that effect services to students.</p>

<p>If you know otherwise, please share the facts.</p>

26

<p>
[quote]
Kyle, it's just fact that Cal is facing major budget cuts that effect services to students.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Yes, that's true. But more importantly, you need to look at other sources of funding.</p>

<p>
[quote]
If you know otherwise, please share the facts.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>a) The federal government gives hundreds of millions of dollars to Cal each year to spend.</p>

<p>University</a> of California Financial Reports</p>

<p>b) Berkeley has over ~450,000 alumni (varies by source), many of whom give to the school.</p>

<p>c) Berkeley's endowment is $3-4 billion, probably higher now.</p>

<p>d) Berkeley is in the middle of a huge fundraising campaign. It started this long before the budget cuts hit.</p>

<p>The</a> Campaign for Berkeley - About</p>

<p>e) Berkeley has received large sums of money from outside sources. Two examples:</p>

<p><a href="https://www.law.berkeley.edu/alumni/enewsletter/2007/october/1.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;https://www.law.berkeley.edu/alumni/enewsletter/2007/october/1.html&lt;/a>
2.1.2007</a> - BP selects UC Berkeley to lead $500 million energy research consortium</p>

<p>These budget cuts will affect the UC system, most definitely; however, they will not harm Berkeley (and somewhat UCLA) as much as they will others.</p>

27

<p>Kyle, really I don't need to know funding sources because what I do know is there are less funds then there were in the past and less funds then are needed. There are fewer sections of classes making it harder to get those you need to graduate in 4 years. The buildings are in disrepair due to lack of funds (major disrepair at Cal which has been written about in detail). Better funded schools are actively raiding Cal of it's top professors. Student grants for indp. study thatare readily available at top private schools don't exist for undergrads, and on and on.....</p>

28

<p>
[quote]
what I do know is there are less funds then there were in the past and less funds then are needed.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Why don't you present some facts that back this up?</p>

<p>
[quote]
There are fewer sections of classes making it harder to get those you need to graduate in 4 years.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Evidence?</p>

<p>
[quote]
The buildings are in disrepair due to lack of funds (major disrepair at Cal which has been written about in detail).

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Source?</p>

<p>
[quote]
Better funded schools are actively raiding Cal of it's top professors.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>And Cal is actively raiding them, too.</p>

<p>(Just read the article re: the Hewlett donation)</p>

<p>
[quote]
Student grants for indp. study thatare readily available at top private schools don't exist for undergrads

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Source?</p>

<p>I agree with CWalker--you're just parroting stereotypes that are largely unsubstantiated. When you have some hard evidence of it, then we can have a discussion. Until then, I suggest you not assert such broad statements that are hard to support.</p>

29

<p>
[quote]
The undergrad experience at Cal is something else. While many can threive at large schools where you fight to get into classes and to know your professors, many others would not threive in that atmosphere. </p>

<p>On campus housing is limited, budget cuts are never ending and quality of life at UCs ins in decline.</p>

<p>Is it worth $100K to have an outstanding undergrad experience? Clearly it is to many.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Students do not have to “fight” their way into classes or to talk to professors. Yes, lectures are large, but discussion classes are small and professors always welcome one-on-one discussions during their office hours.</p>

<p>Cal spirit is awesome and I’ve never met anyone who had a bad thing to say about bear territory. On campus housing is guaranteed to freshman and most, if not all, sophomores, but rooms are currently being converted to make tons more space. Plus, there are tons of co-ops and apartment buildings for students within a 5 minutes walking distance of campus. </p>

<p>I disagree with your statement about the quality of life UCs provide. My brother recently finished 4 years at Cal and he loved them. I’ve been to the campus a lot as well as spending nights there for various programs and the whole atmosphere is extremely enticing; you won’t find a more inviting, laid-back place.
Berkeley does provide an outstanding undergrad experience and it’s only worth $100K to go elsewhere to crazy people. Seriously, dolly flower, come to Berkeley! We have cookies and awesome frozen yogurt.</p>

<p>
[quote]
As grad schools are where Cal shines, the undergrads are feeling the biggest effect of the unfortunate realities of California's budget woes.

[/quote]

[quote]
There are fewer sections of classes making it harder to get those you need to graduate in 4 years.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>SO not true! Someone even asked this at orientation and Professor Diamond (badass woman) was extremely open with her explanation. Yes, some sections have to be cut, but other ones have just been made slightly larger. If someone doesn’t graduate within 4 years, its because they double majored, went Van Wilder on it, etc. If someone needs classes to graduate, counselors and department heads make sure they get in to them.</p>

<p>She also dispelled the belief that Cal undergrads are neglected. Sure it’s known for great grad programs, but undergraduates are presented boundless opportunities to do research and further their education beyond classes.</p>

<p>
[quote]
The buildings are in disrepair due to lack of funds.

[/quote]

No clue what you’re talking about considering I was their last weekend and everything looked great…amazing buildings and awesome libraries.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Better funded schools are actively raiding Cal of it's top professors.

[/quote]

And they won’t leave! You fail to realize that the professors at Berkeley are there because they truly love teaching in that setting. The students and everything that goes into making Cal what it is has drawn them to it for a reason. Also, the research that they do at Berkeley would basically be impossible anywhere else.</p>

<p>dundundun</p>

30

<p>
[quote]
Is it worth $100K to have an outstanding undergrad experience? Clearly it is to many.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>You're assuming that a private will automatically grant the better, or even an outstanding, undergrad experience. That's a big assumption to make considering you don't even know the OP's personality. A nice lesson to learn early on is that more expensive does not automatically translate to better value. (Nor does it imply the opposite.)</p>

31

<p>For Immediate Release: May 14, 2008
Contact: Snehal Shingavi
<a href="mailto:sshingav@berkeley.edu">sshingav@berkeley.edu</a></p>

<p>UC Berkeley Hamstrung By Budget Cuts: Ability to Provide Required Courses to Undergraduates Severely Affected</p>

<p>(Berkeley, CA) — Statewide cuts to the budget of the University of California will have an immediate impact upon UC Berkeley undergraduate and graduate students. After a decade of incremental budget cuts, the university has very little ‘fat’ left to trim. As a result, vital areas of the university will now be affected, depleting the ability of core departments to provide basic instruction.</p>

<p>The impact of the cuts will be felt as early as this coming spring, when the English department alone may be forced to deny entry into required Reading & Composition classes, known as R&Cs, to as many as 300 undergraduates. R&C classes are already difficult to get into.</p>

<p>“The classes fill up lightning-fast because almost every student needs to complete the R&C requirement,” Ahmed Owainati, a Computer Science undergraduate, commented. “The only solution is to dedicate your Phase One
enrollment to getting that coveted slot, despite the many other lower division requirements one might have, and even then nothing is guaranteed. I completed my first class in Fall ‘06, and did not get into the second until three semesters later in Spring ‘08, despite spending each Phase One in between trying to get into some R1B class.”</p>

<p>Although no clear information is available yet as to the total reduction in the number of R&C classes across the university, it is likely that some Class of 2009 seniors will be unable to graduate from the university as a result.</p>

<p>Christine Chang, a third year double major in Molecular & Cell Biology and Public Health, recounted her difficulties in completing the R&C requirement:</p>

<p>“Trying to enroll in a Reading & Composition course was a struggle,” she said. “After failing to receive a spot in an R1A class in the first semester I attempted to sign up, I was able to secure one in my second round, at the cost of a class I needed for my major. This semester I finally took my R1B. In the first few weeks, 40 students were crowded into a small classroom in hopes of getting a spot; many had to sit on the floor. Approving the proposed budget cuts would mean that the UC will be requiring a class and simultaneously further hindering students from taking it.”</p>

<p>The impact of these cuts upon UC Berkeley’s English department is severe. The university has been forced to deny teaching appointments to graduate students and lecturers, which it relies upon to teach lower level English and foreign language classes. Now tied as the top graduate program in the country with Harvard and Yale, according to US News and World Report, the department may be forced to reduce support to its graduate students. Students who rely upon teaching appointments for fee remission, health insurance, child-care, and access to research facilities will lose these
basic services. Students who have already passed their qualifying exams may be forced to withdraw from the program.</p>

<p>Hillary Gravendyk, the recent recipient of the UC Berkeley Teaching Effectiveness Award and an English Department Outstanding Graduate Student Instructor award, said, “While I’m honored to have the University acknowledge me for my commitment to teaching, I’m frustrated and saddened that the proposed budget cuts would remove the opportunity for me to continue teaching at Berkeley for even one more semester. I rely on teaching for fee remissions and financial support; without that support my ability to even complete the PhD could be compromised. It is ironic to be congratulated for teaching excellence by the same administration that is making it impossible for me to continue teaching.”</p>

<p>The University of California, responding to Governor Schwarzenegger’s statewide budget cuts, has mandated a 10% reduction to the Temporary Academic Salaries budget, used to pay for Graduate Student instruction and
assistant lecturer positions. Across UC Berkeley’s campus, the same fiscal crisis will result in the widespread dismissal of lecturers. Departments that are particularly hard-hit include the prestigious English department,
East Asian Languages and Cultures, French, German, and others.</p>

<p>Ian Duncan, Chair of the English Department at UC Berkeley, summed up the implications of the situation. “The projected cuts to the TAS budget pose a serious threat to our ability to sustain our PhD program in the long
run. Most of our graduate students enter the program with the expectation that they will be able to support themselves with at least four years of teaching, since we are not able to provide the five-year fellowship packages offered by our peer-institution competitors (all of them wealthy private universities, such as Yale, Harvard, Princeton, and Stanford). At risk, in short, is nothing less than the core mission of the top-ranked English Department at the top-ranked public university in the country.”</p>

<p>ShareThis</p>

<p>Sphere: Related Content</p>

<p>No tag for this post.</p>

<p>You can follow any comments to this article through the RSS 2.0 feed. Comments are currently closed, but you can trackback from your own site. 2 Responses to “UC Berkeley Hamstrung By Budget Cuts”</p>

<p>Natalia on May 15th, 2008 8:06 pm Thanks for posting this, Kevin.</p>

<p>The Governor made a new budget proposal yesterday that would restore last year’s level of funding (in real-dollar terms still a cut, since undergrad enrollment is rising and costs are rapidly increasing). That would be a better situation for us, but it comes at the cost of state health care!</p>

<p>In any case, no proposed budgets are meaningful until the State Assembly passes one. We’re going to keep working together with other departments, both here and at other UCs, CSU, and community colleges to try to protect higher education in California.</p>

<p>Kevin on May 16th, 2008 2:23 pm Thanks for the update, Natlia!</p>

<p>About</p>

<p>I'm Nobody! Who are you?
Are you—Nobody—Too?
Then there's a pair of us!
Don't tell! they'd advertise—you know!
--Emily Dickinson</p>

<p>Kevin, aka The Thin Black Duke. </p>

<p>All original content at A Slant Truth is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License . All other content is presumed to be used under the doctrine of fair use and retains its original copyright. </p>

<p>You Might Also Find Me At
AfroSpear Freedom Technology Christmas
Solidarity Design Network
Taking Place
Thinking Girl
Unapologetic Mexican
Honor Roll
<em>See also the entire blog roll</em>
Acephalous
Adventures in Ethics and Science
African American Political Pundit
Afro-Netizen
AfroSpear Think Tank
Alas, a Blog
All About Race
Ally Work
Amy King’s Blog
Angry Asian Man
Angry Black *****
Angry Black Woman
Angry Brown Butch
Ask This Black Woman
Automatic Preference
¡Para Justica y Libertad!
Bastard Logic
Being Amber Rhea
Black Agenda Blog
Black American History
Black and Missing but not Forgotten
Black Folks
Black Looks
Black on Campus
Black Prof
Black Women in Europe
Cahiers de Corey
Color of Change
Creek Running North
Culture Kitchen
Dagzine
Daisy’s Dead Air
Dallas South Blog
Debate Link
Diarly of a Black Male Feminist
Diary of an Anxious Black Woman
Donna Darko
Ebog Jonson
Egotistical Whining
Electronic Village
Elle, PhD
Eric Stoller’s Blog
Facing South
Faux Real
Feline Formal Shorts
Feminist Blogs
Feministe
Feministing
Feminst Allies
Fetch Me My Axe
FIERCE!
Free Slave
Gimp Parade
Girl Detective
Having Read The Fine Print
House of Nezua
I Shame the Matriarchy
Incite!
Jack and Jill Politics
Joan Kelly’s Weblog
Jon Swift
Jose Vilson
Kindly Póg Mo Thóin
Leftist Looney Lunchbox
Love Songs (Are for Lossers)
Marian’s Blog
Mighty Quare Dewd
Miss Crip Chick
My African Diaspora.
My Private Casbah
New Black Man
Nine Pearls
No Cookies for Me
No Snow Here
Off Our Pedestals
Oh No a WoC PhD
Orcinus
Pam Spaulding
Plain(s)feminist
Postcaards From the Imagination
Present Progressive Mood
Problem Chylde
Prometheus 6
Queer People of Color Collective
Rachel’s Tavern
Racialicious
Reappropriate
Renegade Evolution
Republic of T
Sex & Race Discussion
Shakesville
Skeptical Brotha
Sly Civilian
SmackDog Chronicles
Sublunary Limins
Super Baby Mama
The Curvature
Theory of Noise
Theriomorph
Thinking Girl
This is Not My Country
Truly Outrageous
Ultraviolet Underground
Unapologetic Mexican
United Black America
Vegankid
Wampum
Wear Clean Draws
What About Our Daughters
Why Am I Not Suprised
Woman’s Ecdysis
Women of Color Blog
Wonderland or Not
Zuky
Podcast Nation
<em>See also the entire blog roll</em>
Addicted to Race
Black Women’s Roundtable
Georgia Podcast Network
Positive Hip-Hop Podcast</p>

32

<p>Honestly, articles like that have been highly contentious in online Berkeley communities. Why? Because it blows it all out of proportion.</p>

<p>
[quote]
when the English department alone may be forced to deny entry into required Reading & Composition classes, known as R&Cs, to as many as 300 undergraduates.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>R&C is so common, no matter what, every student will take it--no matter the budget cuts. On top of that, 300? And you have what, nearly 25,000 undergrads?</p>

<p>This article does its job though: it portrays Berkeley to be in a spot of desperation, when it really isn't. It's definitely got areas to improve, but it isn't dying under the budget cuts. However, this article, as well as others, pushes the issue--to the faculty, the students, and their parents, all of whom can pressure the legislature (in direct or indirect ways).</p>

<p>And this doesn't even substantiate your claims as to how the budget cuts are seriously cutting into other areas of Berkeley, like the quality of life.</p>

33

<p>And one of the profs probably seeking a job at a private college as we speak:</p>

<p>Forty percent of Japanese, 54 percent of Chinese and 66 percent of Korean language classes will also be cut next year, Tansman said. 13 lecturers in the department will not be rehired, he said. </p>

<p>"If it goes on like this there is a chance of the programs becoming second-rate," he said. "I feel extremely demoralized."</p>

34

<p>The article only refers to the English department, right? English classes have always been tough to get into, but the R&C requirement is something that students are advised to complete during their freshman year. If they don’t do it at Cal, they can always do it at a jc during the summer session so there really is no reason that you shouldn’t graduate because of R&C.</p>

35

<p>
[quote]
Forty percent of Japanese, 54 percent of Chinese and 66 percent of Korean language classes will also be cut next year, Tansman said. 13 lecturers in the department will not be rehired, he said.

[/quote]

Japanese classes are being cut because they aren't being filled with students. What's the sense in keeping classes open when only 2 students are enrolled when you can put them in a class with available space? Save money. Same goes for the Chinese and Korean classes. You didn't mention the Spanish classes being cut, and that's probably because they're the most popular and always get filled.</p>

36

<p>^^ like I said, they'll seize the opportunity to portray these budget cuts in the worst light possible. And rightly so--I don't blame them at all.</p>

37

<p>Berkeley often loses professors to elite East Coast private institutions, Birgeneau said, and many are in fields such as economics and the sciences. The dean of the biological sciences in the College of Letters and Science, for instance, said that since he took his post in 2002, he is aware of 37 retention cases among his faculty of 120.</p>

<p>With the departure of high-profile faculty comes not only a decline in prestige for the university and its department but also a potential loss of revenue. If a senior faculty member is replaced by a younger professor, the likelihood of attracting federal funding can decrease. It’s also a matter of resources spent by the university that loses the professor</p>

38

<p>You're just being silly now Kyle, Cal is facing more devestating budget cuts and kids who have the choice of a college that is not should know this.</p>

<p>Kiss the ground you're at Stanford, or are you?</p>

39

<p>Oh, and Calrule, the point is Cal has to make these hard choices while top private colleges do not. In fact, at many top schools theey will provide instruction in just about any subject a few students request. That's the sign of a truly excellent education.</p>

40

<p>Exactly how high-profile were they? I’ve never heard of them, but I have seen all the special NL (Nobel Laureate) parking spaces reserved on campus. Did these retention cases mentioned make note of whether or not the university was successful or unsucessful?
I find it funny that such great professors would leave such prestigious departments within an already prestigious university. Also, most of the research funding for the school doesn’t come via the government, it’s coming from outside sources.</p>